DILF Dad I'd Like to Friend with Kevin Seldon #95

In this Father’s Day conversation, we unpack the hidden mental health struggles of modern fatherhood, from postpartum anxiety in dads to feeling isolated, shut out, or unsure how to bond with your baby.

If you’ve ever felt like parenting changed your identity, strained your relationship, or left you quietly struggling while everyone focused on the baby, this episode will hit home. Jon sits down with Kevin Seldon — founder of Dad Supporting Dads and author of The DILF Handbook — to talk about the emotional realities of fatherhood, why so many men suffer silently, and how better support for dads helps the entire family. This conversation covers paternity leave, emotional regulation, parenting partnerships, burnout, mental health, and what kids actually need most from us.

What You’ll Learn:
• Why many dads don’t feel an instant bond with their baby — and why that’s more common than people think
• The hidden signs of paternal postpartum depression and perinatal anxiety
• How parenting can trigger a major identity shift for both moms and dads
• Why “good parents always put their kids first” can quietly lead to burnout and resentment
• Practical ways dads can become more confident, connected, and emotionally engaged parents

This episode is grounded in developmental psychology, attachment research, and the real lived experience of parenting young children. The goal isn’t perfection or “expert parenting” — it’s helping families feel more connected, supported, and less alone in the hard moments that nobody prepares you for.

If parenting has felt heavier lately — more overstimulating, more isolating, more emotionally exhausting than you expected — this channel is here to help you make sense of what’s happening beneath the behavior so you can respond with more confidence and less second-guessing.


Check out Kevin Seldon's book: "The DILF Handbook"

Transcript

Father’s Day Welcome And Guest

Jon @WholeParent 0:00

Hey, happy Father's Day. Happy welcome to this Father's Day episode of the Poll Parent Podcast. Today I am joined by a dad that I have already friended. His name is Kevin Selden. He is a writer, speaker, and creator of the popular parenting podcast, although there's no new episodes, you should get on him about that, called Dad I'd Like to Friend. And it was an amazing show. It is an amazing show, built around honors conversations about modern fatherhoods from the perspective of dads. Kevin is kind of a dad through and through. He also started a nonprofit called Dad Supporting Dads, and then he recently published a book, that's going to be most of our conversation today, around the myths that modern dads often believe and how we are in some ways excluded from parenting culture. And that book, if you don't know, is called The DILF or the Dad I'd Like to Friend Handbook. It's available everywhere, including at the link below. And because it's Father's Day, today's conversation is really centering around dads and what kind of fathers men actually need to become, and what often gets in the way of that. So I'm really excited for this conversation. I'm excited for you to hear it. Let's get into it. I am here with the Kevin Selden, author of Dilf. Dad, I'd like to friend Happy Father's Day to everybody who is listening. And Kevin, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

I'm good. Thank you for having me.

Why Kevin Wrote The Book

Jon @WholeParent 1:39

So I just in going through your book, the first question that I have to ask, and I know it's in the book, but why did you write this book?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Um, I mean that story goes back, you know this whole story, but um that goes back to my the beginning of my fatherhood journey. Um I've always wanted to be a dad. Uh we when my wife came to me and said, let's start a family, um, I was ecstatic. And then we could not get pregnant. One year, two years, three years, four years, and it was um one of the most difficult things I've ever experienced in my life. It was just heart-wrenching. And there was nothing medically wrong with either of us. So um there was some trauma in my wife's past, and I um I decided no one, none of the doctors would say there was nothing medically wrong with us. But I uh I decided to kind of take on the role of therapist and um and and kind of work with my wife through what she had experienced in her past. And at the end of the day, after five years, we got pregnant naturally. And it was beautiful, but um throughout that entire five years, no one asked me how I was doing. Uh, I didn't even ask myself. Uh, it's not the way we are as a society. We don't really ask men how they are, you know? And and so when we got home from the hospital after a very difficult pregnancy, a very difficult birth, I was a shell of myself. I did not recognize myself in the mirror. And I was having panic attacks and I was really struggling. And uh, and I decided that I was going to do an extended paternity leave and stay home uh with my son, support my wife as she went back to work and um and just reconnect with myself and my son. And it was exhilarating, it was exhausting, but it was the most isolating experience I've ever had. And uh any stay-at-home parent will know this, but a lot of parents in general know this as well. Uh, it's just those first few months are are really tough. Um, and I could not find any friends. And so I started a podcast during that first year. Um, Dilf, Dad I'd like to friend, right? Just to see if there were other dads out there uh that were experiencing something similar and and to find other dads that I respected and interview them and talk to them. And uh the podcast took off, as we've discussed, you know, um, and it broke onto the charts all around the world, it hit number six on the US charts. And that's when I realized that this was a much larger issue. Um, and that it wasn't just dads that were even experiencing this. So we turned that into a nonprofit, dad supporting dads. And uh and from talking to all these dads across the country, I quickly realized that uh there were these myths that kept popping up with all of these, particularly newer dads, um, myths like you will feel an instant bond with your baby, which was causing so much shame, or uh, there's no room for mistakes, or um, men have no interest in the upbringing of their children, right? And so I started kind of jotting them down and and debunking them and like through a series of articles that I was prepping, and I realized that it was a book. And so um we basically, you know, I uh a publisher had reached out because of the podcast, and I was like, I I have a book idea, I want to do it. And we went down that road and I realized they weren't gonna support the nonprofit at all, and they weren't gonna handle any of the marketing. Um, so I turned down my advance and I decided that I would um create a publishing arm through the nonprofit so the nonprofit could benefit. And we published the book last month through the nonprofit. And um, and that's that's it. The the data like to friend handbook is available everywhere. And uh, we just hit number one on Amazon's fatherhood charts. And it's one of those things where um I didn't realize how much it was needed until you start to get the feedback from other people and how many people are feeling isolated and and living these myths and feeling shame and and going through their fatherhood journey um and struggling silently.

Why Dads Struggle In Silence

Jon @WholeParent 6:08

Yeah, I mean that that's actually like exactly what I wanted to ask you about because you write a lot about feeling isolated as a new dad. Why do you think new dads and men in general just struggle silently when they become dads, when they first experience this moment?

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Jonah, I think that men struggle silently way before they become dads. Um, I think that there's so many um men out there, we're just not as a society, again, we we don't ask men how they're doing. Um and we don't ask one another. And um it we're just that's one of the things with our society. It's it's not just that we tell the boys not to cry, you know, and man up. Um it's also even as we break that stereotype and we're like, no, that's horrible. Don't say that to your little boys. Um, we still, when men get to a certain age, we still, as a society, do not um check in on men, you know? And uh and a lot of times I have found that um a lot of men will go for that easy surface conversation. And you have to know, like if you've ever listened to my podcast, when my wife comes on, she'll come on mid-fight and we're kind of, you know, work through our fights. Um and the men are always like, I I I agree with Laura. And the and the women are always like, I'm with Kevin because we're role reversal. Um, but my wife is kind of similarly, grew up in Minnesota. No one really asked her about her feelings. When I ask her how she's doing, she's like, I've never really asked myself that, you know? So she has to build that muscle. But um, it's a very it's a sad thing about our society. And I think that it just gets worse when you become a dad. Because maybe you marry someone uh that is there, you always hear this trope of, oh, my husband doesn't talk. You know what I mean? And then it's like, listen to my podcast, because I I've never met a man that that won't just uh like purge themselves and talk unlimited. It's like, are you willing to listen and truly listen? Right. Um, but I believe very strongly that at the end of the day, um, we just need to give men that space to uh connect with their feelings and then um and then express them. But we as a society um have these men traditionally get together in groups and to have surface conversations about the weather or about sports. Um we don't go deeper. And that just gets worse once you have a kid because it becomes a bitch fest about your partner or about the kid. And then you, you know, when I first started my podcast, um, you know, 2019, it was like any podcast out there, there were very few for dads, but they were all just like bitching about your kid, you know? Um, or like fake masculinity. Um, I I not that obnoxious term like toxic masculinity, but just like people putting on airs um and acting like all this shrapnel and pain that had been put on them was uh was who they are, right? Um and well, I just didn't want to go that douchey route, and I've never been that person. And we do our dad's nights out through dad supporting dads. Like the first thing I do is tell a vulnerable story to the group in the middle of the bar, and then everyone follows suit. But once you have a kid, it's you're too busy with the business of the kid to actually talk about one another's feelings. That's why so many moms out there are like, I don't have the time to take care of my husband anymore. I don't want another kid. And it's like, first of all, I don't think that that's a fair assessment, but we hear it so much because I think that if you had a partner who was kind of looking after you, one of the biggest problems that happens when you become a parent is that change in relationship status, change in identity. So that kind of support system disappears. And if you don't have one outside of your immediate family with your friendship circle, or you don't have that for yourself, then it can be excessively isolating.

PMADs And The Identity Shift

Jon @WholeParent 10:10

Was there a moment when you really feel like that became clear to you where you realized that it wasn't just about changing your schedule, that fatherhood was really about a total identity shift? Was there is there like a story that you can think of or a moment where that really hit you?

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Um interestingly enough, um Mental Health America had listened to their nonprofit, and they had um heard about my podcast, and they asked me to lead a panel for them. And um and in leading the panel on basically paternal postpartum depression, right? I discovered this word PMADS, perenatal mood and anxiety disorders, um, which is an umbrella term that no one uses, but I we've been pushing this now for five years. And um, and it's an umbrella term that encompasses postpartum depression, but also postpartum anxiety and and all these other aspects. And anyone can get PMADs. Um, you know, moms who gave birth, non-birthing parents, you know, moms through surrogacy and adoption, dads, right? Um, and I started to see the reasons that you get PMADs. And it's, you know, not just hormone changes, which everyone talks about with postpartum depression. And by the way, men have hormone changes too, right? Drop in testosterone, brain changes. We hear about this a lot lately.

Jon @WholeParent 11:37

Rise in rise in vasopressin, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

But also um change in identity. You know, who doesn't have a change in identity of who they are as a person once they become a parent? That's not only held for moms who gave birth, right? Um, sleep deprivation, change in relationship status, um, pre-existing conditions. Like for me, those five years of struggling to get pregnant. That was a pre-existing condition, all those, all those anxieties and depression during that five years. And and a big one also is if your partner gets um PMATs, right? Then you are exponentially more likely. And so in doing all this research and prepping my questions, I realized, oh my goodness, I have PMATs. And I am not only um, I am not only, I was not only unaware that I had it, but uh in talking with these other men on this panel, I it just opened my eyes to how limited the scope is. We we don't know half the things. Like I'm talking to all these professionals, and through my research, I'm learning more than some of these professionals even know because they solely focus on um birthing moms postpartum depression, right? And when they say paternal postpartum depression, it's like an addendum that's dismissed, you know? So I kind of started to go on this mission to raise awareness for PMADs and to um get a lot of the biggest nonprofits out there to start using the term instead of paternal postpartum depression. And with there was a big centerpiece of the um of the launch of dad supporting dads and of now all parents welcome, which is the parent nonprofit for dad supporting dads, because we realized that moms through surrogacy and adoption were having more similar struggles to dads than they were to other birthing moms. So we said, okay, we need to open this umbrella, and all parents welcome is a nonprofit where the first arm is dad supporting dads, but we want to open up and create support systems for all these parents that have had no support in the past. Parents uh with children of disabilities, um, you know, parents through surrogacy adoption, LGBTQ. You know, there's just so many out there who are struggling and ignored by the parenting space and are suffering from things like PMADs and don't even understand that that term exists or that they're entitled to be uh feeling whatever it is they're feeling.

Building The Feelings Muscle

Jon @WholeParent 14:04

Do you think part of this is that a lot of men become fathers before they ever learn how to deal with their emotions to begin with? You said, you know, it in my first question that it it happens before becoming a dad. Do you think that a lot of this just comes from the way that society treats emotions in men in general?

SPEAKER_00 14:25

I feel like those are two. Sorry, I'm turning off the stand. Um the qu those are two different questions to me in an interesting way. Um I don't think in the case of my wife, um I don't think many people, if they didn't learn it in youth or in their upbringing, um, ever learned how to feel their feelings unless there's almost a intervention, you know? It's a difficult thing to do. You don't just organically wake up one morning and go, oh, now I'm oh, I'm feeling this way, you know? Someone has to kind of sit down and and it's a learnt muscle, right? And it's just like if you never do push-ups and you're not gonna like just sit down and do a hundred one day, right? Like it's a it's a muscle you have to work. And um, so I think that I it doesn't have to do with parenting or not, it has to do with we as a society don't often uh grow that muscle um on our own, right? That's something some people have that skill set, some people are empaths, some people um, because of where they're raised, like for instance, I said with the Midwest, I can't speak you tell me, you know? But like particularly my wife's family. I don't know if it has to do with Minnesota, but it has to do specifically with my wife's family.

Jon @WholeParent 15:49

Scandinavian, yeah. Scandinavian culture is just kind of, I don't want to burden you with my feelings.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

And I don't, and therefore I don't even learn to burden myself with my feelings. I don't even learn to explore them myself, right? Just push them down and don't be a bother to anyone. Uh something funny that happened a few years ago. My little niece, we were at a restaurant, and I'm from Los Angeles, and I know that comes with its own set of obnoxiousness. But um, but like we were at a restaurant in Minnesota and they got my order completely wrong. And I asked for the waiter, and and they were like, What do you need? And I my my um in-laws said, 'What do you need?' And I said, 'Oh, they this isn't what I ordered.' And my niece, who was like, I I think she was like 10 at the time, she said, We don't tell them when they get the order wrong in Minnesota, Kevin. We just take it and eat it.

Jon @WholeParent 16:39

That's you know, you just enjoy it. No, no. And if you do, it's gotta be like, it's gotta be like, so like I think I probably just said that I wanted this, but I didn't want it. You know, like I'm pretty sure that I must have just miscommunicated in some way, but like, just if you wouldn't mind, like if you got one in the back already, like maybe maybe you switched this with somebody else's. I just want to make sure that what if somebody else is waiting for this food? So anyway, I just wanted to draw your attention to it. I I'm fine with this, I'll eat this. But I just wanted you to know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

I think that literally what you're just improv with. I think it literally happened at the dinner table once with my in-laws.

Jon @WholeParent 17:17

Yeah, yeah. No, that's that's how we do it. That's how we do it. That's yeah, no, it's I mean, it's different in urban and like rural environments too. Like if you're in urban Chicago, uh it's different, obviously. It's more, it's more it's it's a different culture, but but yeah, definitely small town Minnesota. That's or I don't know if she's from small town, but urban Minnesota.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

She is that's exactly yeah, she's small town because I grew up, uh I grew up in LA, but then I went to school in Chicago. I went to Northwestern, and I that was not the case in any way, shape, or form at Northwestern. I wasn't like all the people I met in the Midwest were like that, not in any way. But um, yeah, I think that's a a good difference. Small town, you know, rural um upbringing. So that was very much my wife's family, and and I think that that is the case a lot, um, having nothing to do with your uh location of your upbringing. Um, but genderized, I think we just don't allow men often the space for that. Uh, and therefore that muscle isn't worked enough. And I was always that weird one who asked people about feelings, and it was always a confusing thing to all my guy friends. And then secretly they would come to me, you know, and tell me what was going on with them, you know. Um, and I always joke that my son, who is a mix of me and my wife, obviously, um, is a little like seven-year-old frat kid. Um, and he's so tough and sturdy and like amazing and yet also the most sensitive kid ever. And so he's just gonna be, you know, everyone's gonna be doing cake stands and he's gonna be like right beside them and then asking the asking his frat brothers how they're feeling, you know, talking about their their emotions.

Jon @WholeParent 18:59

Well, I think when we at some point we have to get to the point of like emotions can be our superpowers, right? Like they can be the way in which we understand the world and like without emotions we make bad decisions. Can you imagine trying to marry somebody and you don't? I'm just gonna make this decision non-emotionally, right? Yeah, or or like like the most important decisions in life have to be made with emotions. And if we're trying to make them without emotions, we're still making them with emotions. We're just choosing to forego what our body is telling us and what our emotions are telling us in those moments. We're ignoring actually like the emotional data that's being presented to us. And that emotional data a lot of times leads to how we are happy and healthy.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

I couldn't agree more. I think that one of the biggest myths that because the the book is really it's structured as just 10 different myths, as you know. You know what I mean? Debunking these these 10 myths each chapter. And it's it's a book for new dads, expectant dads. But what I was surprised about is the amount of um moms and even um non-parents who have been coming back with with cool feedback on the book because these myths kind of transcend, you know, the parenting space or the gender. And it writ we wrote it, you know, I wrote it specifically for dads, but there's something about a lot of, you know, moms through surrogacy or, you know, people in relationships who are struggling. There's a chapter you'll never have sex again. And that was just like a chapter that is really connected with people, these systems that we've created through the book for couples to connect. Because it's not really about sex, it's about connection. And if you're not, you know, if you're not sharing the mental load and if you're not carrying um that that responsibility of taking care of one another, then there's not gonna be that connection, right? And and I think one of the biggest myths explored is is what I mentioned earlier. Uh you will feel an instant bond with your baby. And it's such a point of shame for so many dads. And I meet so many dads are on antidepressants with 10-year-olds, and you can track it always back to this perenatal period, that point from when you first learn you're gonna be a parent to the first year of your child's life, you know, and during that perenatal period, there's just so much going on. And most of the time, there's not really support groups for men to talk about those feelings, and everything just gets pushed down, which was the launch of dad supporting dads. We now have one of the largest dad communities in the country, and um, we have groups across the country, you know, in-person and and virtual groups. And it's one of those things where um we're just trying to create a space for people to talk about what it is they're going through and know that you're not alone. You know?

Jon @WholeParent 21:41

No, I I love it. Let me take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll have more with Kevin.

The Myth Of Always Putting Kids First

Jon @WholeParent 21:52

We are back talking with Kevin Selden about his new book, Dad, I'd like to friend Dilf. And And it's organized as ten myths. Kevin, I wanted to ask you when you've already cut covered a couple of the myths, which was the myth that surprised you the most personally when you really unpacked it and deconstructed it. The one that maybe was I imagine all of them were s spoke to you in a certain way, but was there one that stood out?

SPEAKER_00 22:26

It's interesting. There um there was one that I felt was a bit controversial. Uh the most surprising to me whenever I would bring it up to people. So this myth, like, you'll never sleep again, you'll never have sex again, right? Um, there's only one right way to do things, right? These were things that that made a lot of sense to me. And when I, if I if mentioned to others, or you know, the book is is based on research and interviews with other parents through a lot of the parent groups that we created. We we started a bunch of daddy and me classes, which is one of the things we're working on with the nonprofit. And um, all these myths were very organic and made a lot of sense. You know, paternity leave is unnecessary, right? Like debunking these myths made so much sense and they were organic. And we got kicked back on the um paternity leave is is unnecessary. There were, there were dads out there who were like, but I'd like to make a living, you know. But when we went through the numbers of two-thirds of new dads feel left out of the equation, right? And that bonding comes from time put in. And they started to see that a lot of those things happen during those first few months and the systems are set up during those first few months. And that's why paternity leave is so important. It's not just about bonding, it's not just about um supporting your partner. It's all about it and it's not just keeping your baby alive, it's about supporting your um your connection with your partner and with your child, right? And building those blocks. You can't just have no connection and then when they turn two, all of a sudden, oh, there it is, you know. Turn it on. Um But but I think that the biggest myth that I got kicked back from even more than um even more than the paternity leave was good parents always put their kids' needs first. Anytime I brought that up, and even to myself or even to my wife, it was kind of like, whoa, but that's not a myth. It's selfish to not do that, right? Like, of course you need to put your kids' needs first. But the point is the word always. And and just like the airplane flight, the second you say that, everyone's like, oh yeah, the mask, you know, if I'm not taking care of myself, how can I take care of anyone else? But that became the thesis for all parents welcome, right? Like you can't support others if you yourself are struggling. And I think that that's why we're in this crisis right now with parents in America. That's why the the um US Surgeon General put out that report a few years back about how intensely parents are struggling. Because we've been raised as a society to believe that you always put your kids' needs first. And every nonprofit, you know, whenever we talk to funding, they're always like, What are you doing for the kids? And I'm like, well, actually, we're a nonprofit to support the parents. And it's like, oh no, we're only giving money to the kids. And it's like, I don't, of course, I want to support the kids. And for some reason, they're like, it's just not sexy to put your money like supporting the mental health of parents. And it's like, then the kids are screwed. You have to support the parents. You know?

Jon @WholeParent 25:33

I think I that's actually a quote uh from Renee Brown, who I know you love. She says that that uh shaming parents and wanting the best for kids is mutually exclusive because the best thing for kids is the mental health of the parents. The best thing for kids is a parent who's connected to themselves and who has their needs met. And I think about in my work so often the thing that I'm really trying to get parents to do often is just take enough care of themselves that they're not starving and hungry and you know, touch your emotionally or physically partner. Yeah, like they're just absolutely burned out on work and everything else. And then you wonder why they scream at their kids and hit their kids, and it's like, well, yeah, because you're you're coming to that place. So I think I think that that's actually true. And and being a licensed foster parent, that's one of the things they they emphasize is the best thing for those kids is actually getting the parent the help that they need. And that's actually what's going to be the

From Secondary Parent To Co-Parent

Jon @WholeParent 26:31

best. I only have time for one more question, and I wanted to ask this question. I've wanted to ask you this question since I started digging into Dilf. You talk about dads as often feeling like they're the secondary parent, or that there's this idea out there that dads are second fiddle, that they're not the primary, that they're not the default, and you push back on that a lot. What would you say to a dad who feels right now like they are auxiliary, that they're maybe a nice to have, but they're not really like they're not the primary.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Um well, the the book, as you know, opens with a redefinition of the term co-parent. Uh, I think that we need to eliminate this joke of a concept of primary and secondary, like just like you know, all parents work, whether it's paid or unpaid, to say the working parent, you know, is obscene. But um, I think that um if you are an actively engaged parent, it's you're only creating more divisiveness within your home when you use terms like primary and secondary. And it you don't have to be divorced or separated to be co-parents, right? Like you are sharing responsibilities. And I would say to that dad, um, what we talk about with being your own dad the kid, you know, stepping up and really stepping in to being an actively engaged member of your family unit. And if that means asking your wife who's breastfeeding to pump a little so that you can do feeds at night um and she can get sleep, uh, then that's something you have to do. You know, in the hospital when my son was connected to tubes and crying hysterically, my wife was in surgery. I demanded that they give me my baby uh because they were laughing at me when I asked for skin to skin. And I literally took off my shirt and I was my own advocate, right? And I said, give me my baby. And the second he was on my bare chest, he stopped crying. And it's like we as men oftentimes have to, that doesn't mean forceful, that doesn't mean stepping on other people's toes, but we have to look after our own um mental health, and we have to be our own advocates and we have to step in and say, actually, I want to be actively involved and I'm gonna do it a little differently than you. Um, but uh I want a chance to find my own way, right? And I think that the best thing you could do is communicate that to your partner if you are feeling left out of the equation and know, like Brene Brown, who if you're listening, Brene, you're my favorite person and I want to meet you. Um but uh, you know, without the lows, there could be no highs, right? And I feel like it's so important that dads see that it's gonna be tough at times, right? It's gonna be not always butterflies and rainbows, and you might get rejected, and it's a new muscle you're you're um you're growing. But that doesn't mean that there's not gonna be immense benefits, even if you don't see them immediately. Um, but you have to step in and engage. And a lot of times that comes from talking to your partner and really finding a way to make sure that you're both supporting one another, actively engaged, and really each feeling like you have the opportunity to be involved.

Jon @WholeParent 29:50

What I hear you saying is that dads need space to struggle, that na dads need space to fail, that dads need space to learn that muscle, that it is a given so often for birthing parents that they are given the benefit of the doubt, that not that it's not hard, not that postpartum depression, as we've already talked about, is not exhausting and you know, absolutely catastrophic in some cases. But there is this sort of, hey, you're learning how to do this, and that's okay. And then I think a lot of times dads, if they don't advocate for the things that you're saying, they don't get the time to struggle. And if you don't, if you don't struggle, you will never, as you just said, you'll you're never gonna see those highs if you don't see those lows. It's the only way to grow, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:38

And I think that at the end of the day, the the most important lesson here is that um it's not about moms versus dads, right? We need to break that horrible myth that's happening, especially right now in our society, and understand that the more we support non-birthing parents and the more we support dads, um the better supported moms are, right? Because I can't support you if I'm struggling. And we moms need more support. You know, birthing moms need more support. But if you support their partners, they're just gonna be more equipped to support everyone else in the family, including themselves. And so we all win by expanding this circle of support and creating more resources for everyone in the family unit.

Jon @WholeParent 31:28

Thank you so much. All the links to Kevin's stuff, his website, his new book are going to be down below in the description. You can find them, you can get DILF wherever books are sold, but especially on Amazon. Kevin, thank you so much for being on the Whole Parent Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Thank you for having me, John.

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Jon @WholeParent 31:53

Thanks again for listening to this episode of the Whole Parent Podcast. I hope it was worth the time that you gave it today. I hope you learned something or were challenged, or maybe it just made you smile. If it did, there's a couple of things that you can do that would really, really help me out. The first one is to go right now and subscribe to my channel at Whole Parent on YouTube. YouTube is getting full, unabridged versions of every podcast episode ad-free right now. I am really trying to get people over there because I have so much awesome YouTube content planned and I have such a small following over there. So if you want to get the best of Whole Parent, hop over to YouTube. There's awesome stuff there. It's going to absolutely change your life. The second thing that you can do is actually go to the link in the description. You can find YouTube there as well, but find the link for the Parent Lab. It's my exclusive community where I do group coaching. I have a whole course library there full of amazing educational resources for parents. It is a subscription model where you gain access for a low monthly fee. Go ahead, check out the Parent Lab. There's so many amazing things in the Parent Lab. And if you want to grow in your parenting, it's the best way to do that. The third thing that you can do, and it probably costs you the most because it costs you vulnerability, is to share this episode or this podcast in general with people in your life. There are parents in your life who are struggling. There are parents in your life who could use this in their life. And we know that the number one way that we can get more people to listen and watch and follow along with the podcast is by personal referral. People want to know what you're listening to. They want to know what's helping you to parent more effectively. And so if you can do that, find somebody in your life who needs this podcast and send it to them. I would be so, so, so appreciative. Thank you again so much for your time. You can find links to everything that we talked about in the episode, including my books, Punishment Free Parenting, and Set My Feelings Free down below. And I'll see you next time.