The Whole Parent Podcast

My favorite guest ever #67

• Jon Fogel - WholeParent

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Jon:

Welcome to the Whole Parent Podcast. Uh this episode's a little weird because on this episode I have with me a guest, but it is not your typical guest episode. The person I have with me today. Oh well, I shouldn't say that. The person I have with me today is the greatest parenting expert that I know and has written parenting books. Well, a parenting book. It is my wonderful partner in crime. My wife, it's Jess. Jess, say hi to everybody.

Jess:

Hi. Thanks for having me on the podcast, John. It feels weird to say your name on a podcast. It feels so official.

Jon:

Yeah, well, I mean, you do a lot of podcasts, so yeah. You just not usually talking about me. Um that was a joke.

Jess:

I have never done a podcast. Uh well well, when the whole parent podcast started, we You can't say that people might think I'm like out here on some like for my business or something. No, I've never talked into mics like this.

Jon:

So Well, I well, you it's not never because of the begin very beginning of the whole parent podcast. We did record like two episodes where we were gonna do it together.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Jon:

And then what happened with that? Those did not go well. Those are not good episodes, in my opinion. I think you thought they were great.

Jess:

Yeah, exactly. Keyword in your opinion. Here I am being like, okay, I'm ready, I'll do it with you. It's gonna be so fun and cute, and we'll just hang out together in the evenings. And you were like, actually, I think I like it better without you.

Jon:

Okay, okay, okay, okay. In my defense, I know. I just okay, in my defense, it's exactly what's happening right now. That's true. That's true.

Jess:

I make you look bad. Which is just that being too abrasive or something.

Jon:

Not abrasive. You just tell the truth about me, and I'm used to people uh having a very rose-colored picture of me and my parenting. So you're here to uh tell all of the people who listen to the podcast the truth about uh who I really am and all of my deep flaws. But first, who who are you um other than the mother of the four children that we are raising together? What do you do? What's your what's your whole thing? What do you do every day?

Jess:

As in like for work.

Jon:

Do you mean whatever you want?

Jess:

I mean I heard this thing the other day that was like in Australia, you can know somebody and be friends with them for months and months and never like know what they do because that's not like a normal thing to bring up in c conversation. Whereas like here it's like tell us about who you are. Literally, that only means what do you do for work.

Jon:

I I think that that feels impossible to me. And it's funny because we have like I don't know, 20% or something like that of the people who listen to the podcast are from Australia. Yeah, okay.

Jess:

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it's like kind of an American thing to like lead with that always.

Jon:

I believe you, and uh I didn't know that, but now I feel really dumb.

Jess:

You didn't necessarily mean that, but uh Yeah.

Jon:

So what okay, but what you you you are not only the m the mother of our children, you are not only my wife, you have a job, and that job you actually have two jobs.

Jess:

Very part-time job. You have two jobs. I'm a family photographer, yes. Uh, mostly newborns. So I was a nurse, I was an ER nurse for like five years. And then when COVID hit, I was pregnant with our second, and then took my maternity leave and just didn't go back. I had already kind of been doing photography on the side, and then because of COVID and having another little one, I decided to like see what would happen if I really went all in and like actually tried hard to make that like my full-time thing. And it worked out really well. It was kind of like at the time when Facebook ads were like working, they don't really work that well anymore. But basically, I just like was grinding for a while at like really low-priced family photography things, and then I don't know, just like grew from there and then basically was able to totally replace my salary from being a nurse, but with like only a couple hours a week. So that's what I've been doing since then. So that's been like, I don't know, seven years now where I just do like two to three shoots a week and they're only an hour long because they're like newborn shoots. I just go to people's houses, do this session, and then come home. And so basically I feel like a full-time stay-at-home mom, but with a nice little side hustle where I don't have to like, I don't know, I get to like go out and see other people in the same stage of life life as me and kind of socialize a little bit.

Jon:

You get to be a grown-up, yeah.

Jess:

And I like the editing part too. So like if I ever just like need a break from the kids, I can scurry off and say that I'm working, but really it's like something enjoyable and it's just like something like productive to do while sitting or laying in like a bed very comfortably with coffee.

Jon:

Laying prone position with a Starbucks, exactly, just be like work. Guys, I'm working right now. I'm working really hard in my sweats.

Jess:

So yeah, that's what I do for money.

Jon:

That's what you do for money, but you also have another job. I think you keep looking at me like you don't know what your other job is, but you also wrote and illustrated a children's book, which is coming out in not very long.

Jess:

Yeah, that's kind of it does definitely like I don't always think of that because it was such a blip now that it's like done. So like it was everything I was like illustrating like probably six hours a day for a few months, maybe like I don't know, four months, five months, like on and off. There would be like stages where I like send in a draft, and then there would be literally nothing. So it was like so wild as far as like how time consuming it was, and then like crickets, there was like nothing I could do in the in-between. And then I would get like the feedback and I would like to start all over basically on like several of the iterations because I'm not like a professional illustrator, I've never done this before. So it was definitely like a learning curve. And then I would like again, like really go all in so many hours a day, and then nothing again, and then finally turned in the final draft, and now that was, I don't know, six months ago, and and now I haven't done touched it at all since then. So it's totally like it was this like once-in-a-lifetime thing, and it's so so cool. I'm so excited to like actually hold it in my hands. Um, but it doesn't really feel like an ongoing thing in any sort of way.

Jon:

Well, yeah, I mean, let me just from my perspective, it was so cool to watch you do it. And yeah, I can definitely speak to the there were moments where we just had to or you just had to kind of scrap all of the art. But even in that, like I I just remember back to like the first, first draft, the first full draft of the book, and just being like, oh my gosh, I was obsessed. It was like this Scandinavian forest school, like dark and moody art. I was like, I thought it was so good, and I was like so ready for the world to like just see this very, I don't know, like millennial style of of children's book, and like Matt, our oldest actually, he still asks me about it all the time of being like, yeah, but like are you ever gonna do because it was like kind of like took place in forest school and he goes to forest school.

Jess:

So always asking, like, well, are you gonna like do something with the forest school version of it though? And I'm like, no, I mean, I still have them. We could print them in it out for us, but like I don't know. But it's just so funny because it was like totally art is one of those things where you put your whole like heart and soul into it. And so when they like were like, ooh, actually, not this at all. Can you start over? Like basically, like being like, we don't like it. And I was it was like heartbreaking, but also now looking back, I'm like, they were so right, I'm so glad that I like scrapped it, but like it it is a very vulnerable thing to do.

Jon:

Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. I I hear that, and I'm not trying to discount your your truth about that story, but it was one editor who was like, I don't like this. Meanwhile, your agent was like, I'm obsessed with this, and I love this, and please don't shelve this, and please like use this for another thing.

Jess:

So they were very, very right.

Jon:

Yeah, okay. But but okay, so the good news time in place.

Jess:

There's a time and place.

Jon:

There's a time and place. The good news is that this final iteration that actually became set my feelings free, which is the book, that you actually people who are listening to this right now, even though the book doesn't come out until almost May, it's the last week in April, they can actually see some of that art style because you also illustrated, I know not to the same extent, but you also illustrated the new game guide in the similar style, right?

Jess:

Yeah.

Jon:

So it's not like you've taken a complete like you haven't.

Jess:

That's true, but that was like a just like that was also a blip. But I mean, that was the same thing. Whenever I do it, I just like go all in and it's like a lot of hours all at once, but then it's definitely not an ongoing thing.

Jon:

So right. No, I mean, but it's I'm so excited about it. But okay, okay. So uh this is our first podcast, official podcast episode together. It's I think going well so far. So maybe we'll do it again. Maybe we'll do it again. Um, but I did have some would you rather questions because I've listened to some other podcasts with some amazing uh couples, uh parenting influencer types who have their spouse on, and I was like, okay, they do these would you rathers. So uh just in the for the sake of being really vanilla and doing exactly what everybody else does. Um, here's your first would you rather? Would you rather handle bedtime every night for a week or do all of the morning routines for a week? I think I know what your answer is gonna be, but please, please inform the class.

Jess:

A hundred percent bedtimes. I am not a morning person at all. All of my worst parenting moments happen before 7 a.m. I am just like, it doesn't matter if I have coffee right away. The concept of working out or getting up before them and being ready, like totally, totally off the table for me. Um and bedtime, I actually don't think is that bad. We've like kind of got ours down to a science and it's kind of a really enjoyable thing. Like there's never our kids are never like complaining about it. It's like so, so routine that they just like, I don't know, there's like hardly any hiccups. They're just like we do this and then we do this. Like, I don't know, it's kind of enjoyable. Yeah, I mean, okay.

Jon:

I first the first thing that I'll say is that I saw a Whoa, did your mic just stop working?

Jess:

Nope, that's worse. Nope. Oh boy. We're not on the porch tonight. No. I was not gonna sit out there in the cold. So we're in the living room with the biggest.

Jon:

We're in the living room with the bad mic cables. So uh apologize if that gets cut out. Banana.

Jess:

No, don't cut it out. We want these to be like easy and just like it's supposed to be no editing died.

Jon:

So now so now everybody's gonna know that. You say banana. If you ever hear the word banana, it means you forgot to cut something out in any of my podcast episodes or any video that I create, it's because I made a mistake and I say banana whenever I make a mistake so that I can cut it out. Okay, I was gonna say I saw this real, or I don't know, it was like a meme or something the other day that was like uh to all of the men out there, it's like a horrible reality of being a dad is that no matter how bad you slept last night, your life your wife got less sleep than you did. That's a good one. And I will say that part of not being a morning person is that you're also up a lot with the kids at night.

Jess:

I'm up a lot with the kids, you're up a lot with the kids, but but what I thought that that meme was getting at the fact that like women just like sleep so terribly compared to men in middle age.

Jon:

I don't know, or like yeah, I mean we're up we're kind of up the same number of times.

Jess:

No, I mean in general, like if we had no kids, like women have like all of these like issues, like meaning like once I'm awake, I can't fall back asleep, and you're just like snoring two seconds after you're up with a kid. So exactly, exactly.

Jon:

Well, that's what I was gonna say. We're like up the same number of times, but it's it's definitely not equal because if I'm up, it's like oh, I was up for 38 seconds while I like took the said it's okay.

Jess:

Although I definitely have like some like parenting imposter, that's not the right like parenting guilt, because I definitely feel like in other homes the majority of like the morning shift person is usually probably the mom. I feel like I'm the only one who's just like sleeping in till like the latest kid and then getting up like usually, but I could be I don't know.

Jon:

I don't know. I think I I know a lot of people.

Jess:

I think these are probably just let's just move on to the next one. Oh, wait, you answer. Okay, do you prefer bedtime too?

Jon:

Um, yeah, I I guess I would prefer bedtime too if if I had to like choose between them.

Jess:

I don't mind the morning routine, but I will say that although what if you meant morning routine as in like getting out of the house for school? Then both of us hate it.

Jon:

And still you have to do it.

Jess:

Still it falls on you.

Jon:

Still, still still. Yeah, I would say I would say definitely the bedtime, but but I will say like the fact that we have right now the youngest kid doesn't go to bed first, so like the second youngest goes to bed before the youngest, and the youngest is like you know, 14 months, that creates a wrinkle. So I would rather do all of their bedtimes if I had help, but doing all of their bedtime solo that feels really stressful to me. If I had to like hold Margot or like keep Margot, yes, I am the only one who has done that so far with the four kids.

Jess:

I've done that a couple times.

Jon:

So so yeah, maybe I prefer their mornings. I'd rather everybody be awake, I guess.

Jess:

Like Yeah, it is pretty stressful to be like holding a baby while like you're three, because we don't like our kids are not currently at a place where we just are like, okay, go to bed, or at least our our second youngest still like we're in there with them for an extended amount of time. And having the baby at the same time wide awake is okay pretty stressful.

Jon:

I have two more of these. I have two more of these, and then I want to move on. So uh ne number two, number two, would you rather deal with I feel like we disagreed, we're gonna differ on this one. Would you rather deal with a public meltdown or a sibling fight at home?

Jess:

Okay, you go first this time.

Jon:

I would always rather deal with a sibling fight at home.

Jess:

Really? Interesting.

Jon:

Uh I kind of like Okay, I'm outing myself a little bit here. Uh I kind of like sibling fights. I feel like there are moments where we can like deal with some some growth and we can like lean into some difficulty and like everybody can grow through that. And so yeah, it's just I I love a good sibling fight. I mean, like, I'm I don't want anybody to get hurt, obviously, but like if we can do some processing after versus parenting in front of other people, are you kidding me?

Jess:

Like, I would so you thought you knew I would say public meltdowns. I feel like that's a a trigger for a lot of people. I'm surprised you would think that that is what I would say. I would say I prefer a public meltdown.

Jon:

But you would prefer a public meltdown. Yeah, you would rather deal with a public meltdown than a sibling fight at home, right? Yeah, yeah.

Jess:

But I'm saying I'm surprised that you knew that. I would say that. Because public sibling fights though. I don't. They're really triggering to me. And I kind of feel like if it's a public meltdown, it's just like at today, I feel like most people are pretty gracious as far as like, I don't know, we've created a pretty good culture as long as it's not like you know, like an older generation, and then it's just like, you know, whatever, roll your eyes. But like I feel like people are just, yeah, I don't I don't want to trade places with you and kind of have some, you know, a little bit of like a leeway for you. But at home, it's like it's gonna taint the rest of the day. There's like I kind of feel like pressure about like doing it the right way. Like I I don't want to like create any malice or like mess it up or whatever, versus out in public. I'm just like, yeah, they're melting down, and I either have to like keep saying no and it sucks and we like leave the grocery store, like we literally did today after Liam got on the floor and literally smashed his face into the concrete, like hard.

Jon:

My kids told me about this. You did not tell me about this.

Jess:

I was I was like, I was like, this is so like just exactly the picture that everybody meets. Like, I like in in copy and stuff, people are like, when your kid melts down in the popsicle aisle of the grocery store, like literally, that is what happened. He wanted these push-pop things, and I was like, I'm not gonna spend five dollars on these. Like, these do not look good. They're gonna be so much sugar, you're gonna scream about their if they're in our freezer, you're gonna just like scream for them until literally the box is gone. Like, I don't want to bring these home. And so I was like trying to like be like, okay, well, what if we go across the street to 7-Eleven and we'll all pick out a single popsicle that's like gone before we get home? I just don't want them in our house because it's just so much harder to like fight that battle constantly.

Speaker:

Right.

Jess:

And yeah, no, we didn't get to solution. We left the grocery store with nothing. And then we like okay, this is also this is fine to just keep telling the story. Okay, absolutely. So then we like I carry him screaming, and the other two are just like trailing behind me through like the icy, like um parking lot, and then like we get to the car, and I like sat in the front seat whipple him. I like was having a pretty good regulation moment for me. Like, I wasn't actually triggered at him, and so I was like, I was really just feeling bad for the kid. Like, he was so, so upset and dysregulated, and I like sat with him in the front seat, and then I was just like trying to talk him through it, and he was just like not at all like able to hear. I tried the color game. I mean, I like I'm a little bit more half-hearted when I try the like regulation keys than you know, and I think at that point they really need some, you know, energy behind them. And I'm just like, can't even read it and literally like it still worked, actually. I just recorded it still work. We had this book in front of us that has like a piano on it and has like rainbow keys about you can't use these, but then he did use them, but it still worked. He like literally started talking and was like out of his screaming mode. So I guess that did work, but then I don't know, it still ended up not being great. Can you manage to the car seat? And then I was really proud of the other kids because they were like, So are we still going to 7-Eleven? You offered that. I was like, no, we're going home. And they all were just like they were all just like, okay.

Jon:

So they all told me the story later, and they were like, I was like, okay, should we go to the like it was just 4 30 and we're looking for something to do to kill the last hour of the day. And I'm like, all right, should we go to the grocery store? We need peanut butter, and oh, we were gonna get some popsicles.

Jess:

And I had not heard I had no there was okay, we were in the popsicle because there was a specific, like kind of healthy version of popsicle that we're going to get, and then they saw all of this. So yes, it was I kind of put myself into the situation.

Jon:

So so so I was like, I was like, I was like, well, this is funny from my perspective because like I hadn't heard this this this version from an adult, I had heard it from a nine year old. But I was like, gosh, we go get some popsicles at Jewel. And and he's just like, Oh, I don't think we should do that. And I was like, why? And he was like, We already did that today and it didn't go well. And I was like, Oh man, what do you mean it didn't go well? He's like, Well, Liam smashed his face on the floor and we left without getting anything. And I said, You left without getting anything. Anything like yeah, yeah, we were just there for popsicles. So so like I heard the story, but they nobody like felt bad about it. But it was interesting when we when we pulled up at the grocery store. I had done all of this prep of my nine-year-old that told me, like, okay, make sure that he knows that we're not getting the push popsicles.

Speaker:

Oh, was Liam with you?

Jon:

Oh, yeah, he's with us for all of us. He's like, make sure he knows that we're not getting the push popsicles. So over and over, I'm like, okay, we're not getting the push popsicles. And he's like, okay, okay, okay, we're getting the Mexican little popsicles. I was like, yes, yes, the mini Mexican popsicles. And then he's like, okay, okay. Uh but are the mini Mexican popsicles also the push popsicles? And we're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I can't believe you guys put him through this again. So he like kept kind of screaming, but like Really? But not but not in like a big way, just like what no. So then we we we get to the grocery store, and I kid you not, I like get everybody out of the car. And he goes, I think I should stay here. And I was like, what? And he was like, I think I should stay in the car. And I was like, why? And he was like, Because I just really want to get the pushback.

Jess:

Did you get them for him? I totally would have gotten them for him then at that point.

Jon:

No, no. So then I like put him in the cart, I put Margo in the cart. I had I had all four. Jess had didn't have the baby with her at this at this moment. So she probably didn't have a cart like I had. So I had a cart, so I like trapped him in the cart, and we shopped for other things first. We need peanut butter and other things. And then when we got to the popsicle aisle, we just like grabbed the popsicles that we needed to put them in the cart and just kept going. And he didn't even like flinch at it. He was just like, Okay. I I'm not sure. I feel so bad.

Jess:

Okay, I honestly like I wish 7-Eleven just had those put like I wish I could just like buy the box and give him a put one single popsicle and then just like ditch the rest, bring him to church. I don't know, just them. But yeah, I feel bad now that he had to go through that again.

Jon:

No, he he really didn't. But I think I think really what it was is that like he got to go through the experience a second time in and he just kind of like showed how the dysregulation and the regulation cycle of like regulating down made him experience that same interaction later in such a different way. So he didn't have that same interaction, and I think he would have had that same interaction, but he he didn't because of that. So anyway, that was a great that was a great diversion.

Jess:

Okay, maybe you should just skip to not do another one of those if those are gonna take us that long every time.

Jon:

Okay, okay, I will skip it. I think that this just tells us if we have maybe we should always do would you other questions. I think that these are great. Um but I have rapid fire questions as well before we get to our like favorite parenting moments of the week. And how long have we been going so far? Okay, okay. We still have time in this episode. This is good. This is good. Uh I feel like we don't have to we don't have to like rush through these. But they are rapid fire, so I think that's kind of the point. So we're supposed they're they're called hot seat questions. Hot seat. I wish I had like an like a little can I can I like do like a little can I do like a little hot seat.

Jess:

Oh my god, I did not know this could do that. Once a while, I feel like we're on a radio show.

Jon:

Yeah, yeah. Uh welcome back to the whole parabolic. That was actually probably a great moment for the break.

unknown:

Oh.

Jon:

Okay. Uh you probably just heard a break instead of that. Um, no, no, no. Okay, okay, okay. Here's here's your hot seat rapid fire questions. Um, we are gonna answer these together, though. So both of us, it's just like the game that you play at weddings where they hold up the shoe of like the man's shoe or the woman's shoe. You know what I'm talking about? Are you smiling? Okay. So I always smile. Like you're like nodding, but you're not smiling.

Jess:

Except for that it's audio.

Jon:

But it's audio only, so we can't hold up shoes. We're just gonna have to say mom or dad.

unknown:

Okay.

Jon:

Or just or John. Is mom or dad better or just or John?

Jess:

I don't care.

Jon:

Okay, mom or dad. We'll go with mom or dad.

Jess:

Um if it's like from the kids' perspective.

Jon:

If it's from the kids or perspective, so um so just as an example, I'm gonna say who's more patient with the kids, and then you're gonna say as quickly as you can who just first thought, word association, patient, mom or dad. Okay, first one. Who's more patient with the kids? Mom. Mom. Yeah, 100%. I mean, when they're hungry, though. More patient with the kids hungry. Oh, oh, you mean as the adults? Who's more patient while hungry? Yes, dad. Dad, dad, dad. Okay. Who's more likely to lose their cool dad? Dad. Okay. Let's be real. Who handles chaos better?

Jess:

Dad.

Jon:

Dad, also dad. Also, dad, yes, with you. Um, who needs more alone time to reset? Mom. Um you're just like not even letting me like jump in.

Jess:

I thought we were supposed to say them at the same time.

Jon:

Say it as quick as yeah, but you're going so fast. You're going before I can even say. Really?

Jess:

I feel like I'm taking such a pause.

Jon:

Okay. I'm going to say three, two, one on this one.

unknown:

Okay.

Jon:

Who's better at bedtime? Three, two, one, mom. Mom. I think that's right. I think you're better at bedtime.

Jess:

I wonder if we're going to get all of them with the same answer. Or if we're going to disagree on anything.

Jon:

I think we're going to disagree on some of them. Okay. Um, who is the stricter parent? Three, two, one dad. Dad. Absolutely, I'm the stricter parent. Um, which makes you the next one. Who's the softy parent? Three, two, one mom, obviously.

Jess:

Yeah, but like to a fault. That's not necessarily a good thing. I mean I I don't know. I don't know. Strict sounds like a bad thing, but also softy sounds like a bad thing. I mean, I'm permissive sometimes.

Jon:

Yeah, I hold boundaries sometimes when it's to the detriment of the children.

Jess:

Okay, rapid fire.

Jon:

Rapid fire, super fast. Who's more emotionally intuitive? 3, 2, 1, dad.

Jess:

Dad, yeah, definitely. I think so. Well, yeah.

Jon:

Who's better at apologizing? 3, 2, 1. Dad. Sorry.

Speaker 1:

That one is like there's some things to unpack there.

Jess:

I thought you wanted these to make you look good, so clearly this has been rigged.

Jon:

I sorry about that. Uh who takes things more personally? Three, two, one, dad. Dad.

Jess:

I'm kind of surprised you didn't say yourself, but um, well, I mean, they're supposed to be rapid fire, but with the whole like preferred parent thing, like if it had been switched, if they liked you better, I would take it very personally. But I mean they mostly like me because I'm permissive.

Jon:

I mean, no, no, I don't think they like they like you and like I that's an and that's not a because they that's an and that's that's they like you and you're permissive. I think it's like I I think it's funny because like you were you were just like yeah, well, you know, if they liked you, then you probably wouldn't have looked for the week.

Jess:

I did not mean that. I was saying the the reverse. If they were like I mean literally the one time Ollie was like, I want dad because mom hurt me. I was like, excuse me. You're supposed to only ever want mom.

Jon:

I felt so good about it. I was just like, I was like, that's right. Here's your here's your five dollars. Um who is more fun at the end of the day? Three, two, one, mom.

Jess:

Dad? At the end of the day, like literally the end of the day?

Jon:

Or you just mean like I meant like at the end of the day, who's more fun? Okay, like at the like, yeah, at the end of the day. Still dad.

Jess:

I mean like fun. Fun. I think because we have three boys in the ages that they are, the roughhouse and the like crazy silliness is the thing that's fun to them. And I I do my best to be fun, but my fun looks like let's sit down and do this like really fun craft with hot glue. And they're like, that is really fun, but that's not real fun. I don't know. I don't know. I think I disagree with that. We lost you again.

Jon:

Sorry.

Jess:

Okay, next.

Jon:

I think that you are as fun or more fun than I am, because you do stuff that I would never do. Like I might roughhouse, like I I might be more fun in the immediate moment, like in the in the gap. Like if we're like literally at gap, like if we're like out in public and like I'm I need to like just pull out all the stops and be fun. Like, okay, great example of this. When we did that when we did a photo shoot, like we've done photo shoots as a family or like video shoots, and you're like, okay, John, you need to go be fun right now. I can be fun, I can be fun, but I think on the whole, they prefer to spend time with you. I think that that means that you're more fun.

Speaker 1:

No.

Jon:

Okay.

Jess:

I mean, we literally were doing Would You Rather with Matt the other night for like on New Year's Eve. And one of the questions that I asked him was, Would you rather have like more really special fun times? Or no, sorry, fewer really special fun times, but they were really big and special, or just like a more medium like fun times together, just like more daily average stuff, but like more of it. And he was like, For sure, for sure, just like the more daily average.

Jon:

So but okay, but to the point of the big stuff, like we're going to we're going to Orlando in February. You you are the driver on that. Like, I probably wouldn't do stuff like that.

Jess:

Like, I just that's like too much planning and too much organization for and then I'm gonna get there and literally like dissociate the moment we walk through the gate and be like, John, you need to carry this. This is too much pressure. This is too overstimulating. But then I'm gonna be fun. Like, exactly. That's my point. I'll be fun in the world, but like, but we don't know. I think that my like trying to make things big and special and fun only even play out uh 75% of the time at most. How like 25% of the time? It's worse than nothing.

Jon:

Okay, okay, okay. Let's stop. Who's better in a crisis? Three, two, one, dad, dad. Interesting. I was so sure that you were gonna say yourself, why do you think I'm better in a crisis?

Jess:

There's so much like conversation on all these. Okay, because I threw the the tubing toe rope under the Guys, you don't understand that she talks about this constantly.

Jon:

It happened 10 years ago.

Jess:

Okay, I think so poorly under pressure, and I like didn't even know that about myself until I was put into a situation where like we were on we were tubing on a boat.

Jon:

It was a ski dude.

Jess:

That this type of boat doesn't have a propeller. It has like like it blows air to like propel itself, I think. And and then it's it's sucking in on like another one. And so basically the rope is like going under the boat, and it's gonna it's like about to like suck the rope up and just like totally like stall the boat. And I just like didn't know what to do. I like ran the wrong direction, like just chicken with my head cut off kind of thing.

Jon:

Just like everything like great quality for an ER nurse.

Jess:

Yeah, well, I'm not an ER doctor. Um, and so anyway, basically that kind of just like defined my reality then moving forward of just being like, now I'm gonna like accept this as part of my identity. I don't do well under pressure, and now that I like think that about myself, I see it everywhere. So now it's just like totally self-fulfilling prophecy.

Jon:

I said that I was good under cr in a in a crisis, not because I'm actually good, like it's because I like rise to pressure. Yeah, like who's better at like problem solving? Like mom, a hundred percent.

Jess:

But but crisis implies like emotional.

Jon:

I think there is a tiny subset of the population of which I am somehow part of that in the less than one-tenth of one percent of life when your adrenaline spikes, the world slows down and you feel like you're more in control.

Jess:

Hence, John Rule bowled a 300. In case you didn't know that, he went bullying with somebody from our church. He bowled in high school, so like the not just like a total random three. Yeah, no, never 300, but then just like randomly 10 years, eight years after never bowling, basically, just was like pulled his like real balls that are like actual bowling balls, not just like house balls. Okay, anyway, cut that out, please. I can't even finish the story. Anyway, he pulled a 300. That's the end of the story.

Jon:

Hopefully, hopefully the like 65-year-old, 70-year-old woman who that the story occurred with is not listening. Uh, Pastor John. Okay, who needs more sleep to function?

Jess:

19321. Yeah. Obviously, we're going to cover that.

Jon:

321 for that one. Uh, who's more likely to say we'll deal with it later? 321.

Jess:

My God. Interesting.

Jon:

I don't think you will you deal with it later?

Jess:

No, but I'll say it. That's my code for I don't want to deal with this ever. So let's just say later.

Jon:

Okay. Um, who initiates repair after a hard moment? I think that you know what this is. Can we just say both? I think you're really good at repair after a hard moment with our kids.

Jess:

With our kids, yeah. Sure.

Jon:

No, no doubt, right? Like we're talking about parenting here. I think both of us do this pretty well. I think both of us say that we're sorry to our kids. I think it's like the the best part of being like our parenting. We're definitely not perfect, but when we are not perfect, I think. I try.

Jess:

I try to, but it's very, very unnatural. And I think it when I do apologize, especially to like Matt, like's our oldest. I don't know. It feels very like. I'll just be like, I'm sorry, but I don't really want to talk about it. And you're really good at like being like, let me like flesh out. Like, so here's like what was going on. And I'm just like, when you make aboard, I will say it, but I need to like just it is so hard for me to stay in that space.

Jon:

When you make as many as mistakes as I do, um repair, like anything that's challenging or difficult for you, just do it a thousand times. Uh when you are as crappy of a parent as me on a daily basis, you you learn to do lots of repair. Okay. Next one. Who's likely who's more likely to say this is just a phase? Three, two, one.

Jess:

Mom.

Jon:

I don't I don't I was gonna say dad. Sorry, I don't know why I didn't say it. I think I'm I'm always like, well, developmentally.

Jess:

No, no, no, no. The whole shark music concept never gets applied to me and always gets applied to you.

Jon:

That's true, that's true. That's true.

Jess:

You're always just like worried that they're gonna stop or not stop waking up in the middle of the night. Oh, yeah. Or eating stuff. Why did I say not eating healthy? Or like, I don't know.

Jon:

I am I am I take all of it back. I take it all back. I take it all back. Um okay, last one. Who would survive parenting alone for a week better? Three, two, one. Mom.

Jess:

I don't know. Yeah, maybe.

Jon:

Yeah, definitely, mom.

Jess:

I what because I would get to a week is a long time. I would I would like get to the end of my rope like earlier and earlier every day. But the last day I would just be like, I don't know.

Jon:

Okay, okay. That may be true. I guess the parenting side, like if it was p only parenting and I had someone here but like cleaning up after me and cooking and doing all like literally, if you were gone for a week, like I don't like with the tr like I don't know if any if I would do anything. I'm I'm like such a bum on some of these things. So I don't know. I feel like we could both do it if we needed to.

unknown:

Yeah.

Jess:

Anyway, how do we end this?

Jon:

Cause uh Yeah, yeah. So we check the time and we go.

Jess:

My hands getting hands getting tired of holding this mic because we don't have mic stands.

Jon:

We don't have mic stands. We're doing this in our couch uh in the living room.

Jess:

And John is currently wearing our child's headphones.

Jon:

I'm wearing our child's headphones because uh the other headphones I'm pretty sure are in a room with a sleeping child. So, um, I think we end by just saying You have to thank me for being so amazing on your podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh guys, uh thank you so much, Jess, for being here on the Whole Parent podcast. Will you come back and do this again?

Jess:

Yeah, anytime we'll totally see if you actually mean that. Or we're gonna get off and you're gonna say, never again.

Speaker 1:

Uh yeah. Um that was terrible, Jess.

Jon:

No, I think it was this was great. I love this. I would do this every week if you would do this. Honestly, it's so fun. And uh yeah, I guess that's what we have for you today.

Jess:

This seems like it'd be pretty boring to listen to. Maybe it if we were to do it again, we would talk about actually something of substance.

Jon:

I don't know. Okay. It's I think I think it's interesting. I think it's interesting to change a pace. It's a little change of pace, a little, you know.

Jess:

It's been a lot of uh listener questions. I listen to the podcast every day. I don't know if that's a good look or a bad look, but I do.

Jon:

I think it's a good look. I think it's a good look. You listen to the podcast every day until I get on a series where you're just like, uh, John, you know, I haven't listened at all this week. I listened and it was a little bit boring for me, so I was just like, no, thanks.

Jess:

Okay, that was just the personality types, which I love the personality types, but I also don't necessarily need to hear you talk about them for 40 minutes each. But the listener questions I loved. So anyway, any feedback is great because we basically John has like puts us out into void. I don't know. Do you get a lot of like do you how how do you know what's good and what's bad?

Jon:

Occasionally people text me. Well, you can text the show. Oh uh in the in the message in the in the DMs.

Jess:

Maybe you should let us listeners know that. Maybe I'd be texting after I listen.

Jon:

Uh unfortunately, I can't text you back. So if you take a look at it. Anyway, so just know that I get every single text and I read them, and sometimes I try and I get them as emails and I try and reply to them, and then all that the same.

Jess:

Give John feedback, so it's not boring.

Jon:

Give me lots of feedback so it's not boring. But if yeah, if you do text me, I might try and reply, and it'll just send me an email being like, just so you know, you can't reply to this. That's why it says do not reply. Anyway, uh, yeah, this has been the whole parent podcast, and I guess I'll see you tomorrow. Is that a good way to end? She nodded. Bye guys. I have a couple quick favors to ask of you as we end the episode. The first one is to jump over on whatever podcast platform that you You are listening to right now, and rate this show five stars. You'll notice there are a lot of five star ratings on this show, whether that's on Spotify or Apple Music or Apple Podcasts. We have a ton of five-star ratings, and it helps our podcast get out to more people than almost any other parenting podcast out there. And so it's a really quick thing that you can do if you have 15 or 20 seconds. And if you have an additional 30 seconds, I'd love to read a review from you. I read all the reviews that come through. If some if you particularly like one part of the podcast or you like when I talk about something or whatever, imagine that you're writing that review directly to me. The second thing that you can do is go and send this episode to somebody in your life who you think could use it. Think about all the parents in your life. Think about your friends, your family members who could use a little bit of help parenting. It's vulnerable to share an episode of a parenting podcast with them. I get it. But imagine how much better your life is as a result of listening to this podcast, of following me on social media, of getting the emails that I send out. You can share that with someone else too. And so I encourage you, just go over, shoot them a quick text, share this episode with them, or share another episode that you feel like is particularly relevant to them. The last thing you can do is go down to the link show notes at the bottom. And like I said in the mid-roll, you can subscribe on Substack. It's $5 a month or $50 a year. Uh I don't have that many people doing it, and yet the people who are doing it have made this possible. And so if you like this episode, if you like all of the episodes, if you want them to continue, the only way that I can keep making them is through donor support, free will donations to the podcast. Please, please, please, please, as you're thinking about the end of this year, as you're thinking about your charitable giving, I know I'm not a 501c3. You can't write it off on your taxes, but if you'd like to give me a little gift to just say thank you for what you've done this year, the best way to do that is over on Substack. Again, $5 a month, $50 a year. It's not going to break the bank. It's probably less than you spend on coffee every week. Definitely less than you spend on coffee every week. Maybe uh less than you spend on almost anything, right? Five bucks a month is very, very small, but it goes a long way when it's multiplied by all of the different people who listen to the podcast and sending that over to me. I get all of that money. It's just my way of being able to produce the podcast, spend money on equipment, spend money on subscription fees, hosting fees for the podcast, all of that stuff. Email server fees, all that. So if you're willing to do that, I would love it. Thank you so much for listening to this episode, and I'll see you next time.

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Jon Fogel

Host