The Whole Parent Podcast
The Whole Parent Podcast
The Great Santa Controversy #32
In this throwback episode, Jon takes on the Santa question: the moment every parent eventually faces when wonder collides with honesty. Framed around the tension between magic and trust, he explores how Santa works in a child’s developing brain and why the real issue isn’t whether Santa is “real,” but how we show up when kids ask big questions. Parents will walk away with clarity, compassion, and practical ways to navigate Santa conversations in a way that protects imagination, emotional safety, and the parent-child relationship.
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Welcome to the Whole Parent Podcast. This is John. Before we get started today, I wanted to give you a quick note. This episode is a rerun. We first aired it last year during the holidays, and it's about Santa Claus and the surprisingly complicated questions that he brings with him. I decided to replay it because every year around this time, the same moment keeps happening in homes everywhere. It's a quiet room, a parent mid-thought, a child asking a question that sounds simple, but it really isn't. Is Santa real? This episode really isn't about Santa. It's about trust and imagination, about what kids are really asking when they ask the big questions and what it costs us as parents to answer them honestly and carefully at the same time. If you're listening with little ones around, just a heads up, this episode talks openly about Santa. And so you may want to save it to listen yourself later. And another couple of things, first or second, or maybe third at this point. The episode is recorded before I had the equipment that I have now. So the audio is a little iffy. I also back then tended to make the music a little loud, so it might help to listen on headphones. Again, it's about Santa, so maybe it's a good idea to listen about on headphones anyway. But yeah, I hope you enjoy it. Here it is. The Santa controversy from the Whole Parent podcast. It's a crisp December evening, and you're sitting by the fire with your kids. The tree is twinkling, the stockings are hanging neatly. We have six this year. It's a lot. Your kids are carefully setting out cookies for Santa because it's Christmas Eve. There's that magic feeling in the air, the kind of magic that all makes us feel like kids again. And then, from across the room, you hear the words that you have been dreading since your child was born. Is Santa real? In that moment, time freezes. You glance at your partner, you're caught in this silent parental game of chicken. Who's gonna take this one? For generations, the story of Santa has been this pillar of a magical childhood. The idea of this jolly old elf who travels the whole world every single Christmas, fueled by cookies and goodwill. But the magic also comes with questions. What do we do when our kids start wondering if it's true? What happens when their wide-eyed wonder gives way to skepticism? How do we strike a balance between nurturing an imagination and a childhood and staying true to values? Today on the Whole Parent Podcast, we're diving into the great Santa controversy. Is it okay to lie to your kids about Santa? We'll explore the psychology of why kids believe the moment they start to doubt, and how you navigate those tricky questions in a way that honors their wonder without compromising their trust. Because at the end of the day, it's not really about Santa, it's about how we show up for our kids. When the questions are big, when the answers aren't easy, and the stakes feel impossibly high. I'm John. Today we're talking about Santa Claus, why he matters, how we can talk about him, and why his story, like parenting itself, is more about a journey than any destination. So this year so far, we've been watching some Christmas movies, maybe fewer than in years past. I think we got kind of burned out on them, but we did watch The Santa Claus with my oldest. It's a story about a guy named Scott Calvin. He's this workaholic toy executive, he's played by Tim Allen, and he is doing the bare minimum parenting for his son Charlie. He reluctantly takes him on Christmas Eve, and everything just goes terribly. He burns the turkey, they have to go out to eat. He doesn't know how to talk to Charlie when they're sitting there, it's awkward. There's this general vibe of like when is this gonna be over? And then something truly unexpected happens. Scott accidentally kills Santa Claus in front of his son. I'm paraphrasing, but that's what happens, right? He yells at Santa when he's on his roof, Santa falls off his roof and plunges to his doom. Now you might think as a logical adult that maybe Scott, this very grown-up, very mature executive, is going to call 911, maybe check to see if Santa's okay, but no, not Scott Calvin. He is going to put on the suit of the man that he has just killed, because apparently when you kill Santa, that is what you are expected to do. What Scott doesn't realize is that this small act is going to have massive implications for him. You see, there is a clause, a Santa clause, get it C-L-A-U-S-E, and it's written in microscopic legal language that binds him to being Santa as his job for the rest of his life. Because that's the real power and magic of a well-written contract. Charlie and Scott spend the rest of the night delivering presents, doing Santa's job. Eventually they wind up at the North Pole where they learn the extent of this contract, including that Scott is now officially Santa. It's a fun movie. I found myself enjoying it like I did probably when I was a little kid. But I really found myself doing something that I'd never done before, which is empathize with the villain of the movie, the antagonist. His name is Neil. He's Charlie's stepdad. He's a psychiatrist who wears these horrible sweaters and whose primary fault seems to be the fact that he is deeply troubled that Charlie's beliefs in Santa go way beyond what's normal. Charlie doesn't just believe in Santa, he said that his dad is the real Santa. And if we take this outside the context of the movie, you can see how a psychiatrist would probably be pretty unnerved by this. Neil is even more concerned that Scott, a man who Neil has been nothing but nice to so far in the movie, although a little patronizing, if we'll admit, is feeding into this delusion. For context, the magic of this contract is transforming Scott into Santa. But what Neil sees is this adult that's going to these extreme lengths, putting on hundreds of pounds, growing this massive beard, changing his hair color to manipulate this vulnerable and confused child of divorce. I have to admit, like I have a really hard time hating Neil. And for that matter, you know, Charlie's mom. I could keep going on about this, but really what they seem to be struggling with is something that I very much so empathize with, which is how do we talk to our kids about these sort of magical things? What do we tell our kids about Santa? Let's start by acknowledging the elephant in the room that Santa is a really big deal. For many families, Santa is this figure who represents joy and magic and the spirit of giving. And for others, the idea of Santa feels just kind of dishonest. Just I can't lie to my kids that way. And I've walked that struggle, right? Like it feels kind of at odds with your values of trying to instill honesty and transparency with your kids, perpetuating this myth. And that kind of leads us to the reality, which is the reason Santa is so controversial is that it's really hard to take a neutral approach to Santa. Kids are going to ask you really pointed questions, and at different times it can be really hard to know what to say. How does Santa get to every house in one night? Why does Santa have different handwriting or use different wrapping paper at one friend's house or another? Why did my friend get this larger, bigger thing than my other friend who has less money? Doesn't Santa, you know, have unlimited resources to be able to give every kid what they are asking for? And eventually it leads to this kind of fundamental question, that one that I talked about in that setting of the scene on Christmas Eve, and that's the big one, you know, is Santa real? So how do we answer these questions without crushing the magic or compromising our kids' childhood or anything like that, or our integrity as parents? First, I think it's really important that we answer the question or at least ask the question why kids are so drawn to Santa? Why are parents so drawn to Santa? Why do kids find it so easy to believe this? And if you're going to ask childhood development specialists, they're going to highlight that before about the age of seven, kids live in what we might think of as this kind of magical way of seeing the world. Just take, for example, you know, when we think about magic and ask these fundamental questions, we are doing so from a place where we understand how things work. And so when something like Santa Claus, which clearly doesn't work, comes up, it competes with our views of other things that do work. Whereas for our kids, they live in a world that they don't really fundamentally understand before the age of seven. They don't know how an elevator, you know, doors open and how it's hydraulically or whatever, pulley system to move it up and down. I don't even know really how elevators work. I just know that they kind of do. They don't really understand how cars work. They just kind of, you know, you press a pedal and then they move. They don't understand internal combustion engines or electric engines or whatever. And so because of this, they are just kind of wired to be open to magic and wonder and imagination. So they're not just believing in Santa because we tell them to. They're believing because it aligns with the way that they're really processing everything in the world. Santa's story for them just kind of feels normal. It feeds into their sense of wonder that they're experiencing all over the place, and it gives them some frameworks for some positive considerations. Concepts like generosity and kindness and even delayed gratification. And that's that's the positive side of Santa, if we're being honest. Waiting for Christmas morning teaches patience, it teaches tolerance of emotions. Writing letters to Santa is this reflective process. It allows us to even participate in some gratitude. You're leaving out cookies, that's a lesson in hospitality and generosity and doing something for others. And so Santa's not all bad. In fact, during this 2016 interview that I was able to find with the Wall Street Journal, developmental psychologist and best-selling parenting author, also podcast host of my favorite parenting podcast, Raising Good Humans, Aliza Pressman, who, by the way, herself is Jewish, so she has no vested interest in this Santa question, said to the Wall Street Journal that it's not only acceptable for us to perpetuate the myth of Santa in kids under the age of seven, it actually can be beneficial to helping them develop this rich imaginary life. She goes on to talk about how kids are learning all the time through imagination. This is how they're doing perspective taking and developing moral reasoning. It's something I talk about extensively in my book, that we utilize and leverage their imagination to teach them the life skills. And that traditions have been doing this forever, not just the Santa Claus tradition, but traditions going back to indigenous communities for thousands of years. So participating in the Santa myth with your four-year-old is probably not as harmful as some of the people who are on the extreme, I will never lie to my kids' side, are maybe forwarding that it is. But it also can depend on the kid, and that's an important consideration. And really what this all brings us to is the central question that we have to ask ourselves when we're considering this whole Santa thing, which is really the central question that we have to ask ourselves whenever we're talking to our kids. And it's why are we doing what we're doing? What are we getting out of it? Is it for our kids? Is it only for our kids? Is it for both us and our kids? Who is this Santa myth actually for? It's complicated. I think one thing that kind of gets to this is this interesting phenomenon where kids pretend, and I don't know the statistics on this, but I have heard this in multiple different interviews with parents. I watched so many interviews, read so many interviews about Santa from developmental child experts. And one of the things that often they will point to, again, I don't know the percentage of kids who do this, is that at some point kids will actually learn that Santa's not real from school or from a friend, or maybe they will just, you know, kind of logic it out for themselves and they'll stop believing, or maybe they, you know, saw it on a show or something. And they will actually lie and pretend to believe that Santa's real for the benefit of their parents. And when they're asked about this, you know, it's not just like they're saying, oh yeah, well, I like the presents. I'm gonna keep pretending so that I can keep getting the presents. These kids will actually come right out and say, no, you know, my mom or my dad really loves this Santa thing. They love that I believe in it. And so like I just kind of do it for them. And so I think we often tell ourselves that Santa is only for our kids. It's to keep their childhood magical. I think the truth is often more complicated. And I think our kids even sometimes will know that. And then there's the other kind of issues with Santa that we often don't really consider, that are really not for the benefit of our kids. I think about specifically Santa's omnipotence, and now he has spies to assist in that omnipotence. Um, we call them the elves on the shelf, right? And they're the the these are tools of behavior modification for parents and have been for decades. The holidays, the winter break, like these are dysregulating times for kids. We have holiday parties and family gatherings. Parents can, you know, that can bring up some childhood stuff for us. We we don't often parent our best in front of our families. Obviously, there's some uncomfortable clothing, itchy sweaters, all of that, at least for my childhood, and just generally way too much sugar. We're missing bedtime, we're out after dark. And this just means that kids are out of routine during this time of year. And so it's nice for many parents to have a way of sort of mitigating those tantrums and those meltdowns. And that's, I think, the kind of uncomfortable part of Santa that that we do need to touch on before we keep going with just the do we believe, do we not believe? And that's the part of the Santa myth where Santa becomes the bribe or the threat that keeps kids doing what we want them to do rather than, you know, doing the things we don't want them to do, misbehaving, having tantrums, meltdowns, whatever, when they're in less than ideal scenarios. I have a story about this. It actually just happened to me yesterday. I'm recording this in December of 2024. And we went to the library, but not our local library because it's currently under construction. We went to the one in the town, the next town over, and I go there often with my middle kids. So I have a four-year-old, I have an almost three-year-old, and then I have an eight-year-old and a two-month-old. And the four-year-old and the three-year-old are the ones who are with me in the morning while their brother is at forest school. And we go to this local library and we're playing in their play area, and they both reach for the same place piece at the same time. They're playing with the library Legos. And they both reach for the same piece, and then they both proceeded to kind of let each other know that they wanted it. Now, nobody laid hands on each other, but they both expressed their displeasure, let's say, to one another. And this is totally normal, right? Sharing is difficult, especially with siblings. And a librarian walked over and said to them, she intervened, which was a little strange because I was sitting right there. Usually you don't see adults do this, but she felt empowered to come over and say, you know, we need to share and we need to be nice to each other at the library, especially this time of year. And this, in my view, is just like the highlight of, and I don't mean to, you know, this librarian was had the best of intentions, and she's just operating from her worldview too. Like I'm not knocking her at all. But this is the gross underbelly of the Santa myth, right? The way that we use kids' sense of magic and wonder to gain compliance and to try and incentivize good behavior. You're being watched. You know, he knows when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake. You better be good. And I would argue that if we are going to choose to participate in this Santa myth with our kids, at the very least, that part of it, what I call the naughty and nice list part of it, we should deconstruct and get rid of. Now, I don't think you have to get rid of the entire myth then. I'm saying that the part of the myth that is used primarily as behavior modification is problematic no matter how old your kids are and how you're utilizing that. And the reason I say this is because home really needs to be a safe place for kids to express their big feelings when they have bad days. And it cannot be a place where there are elves narking on them because they got too hungry, or because they had trouble sharing, or because they had a bad day at school and they just let off some steam. And that kind of goes, and even if you don't do the elves, you know, the narking elves, you also need to yourself be a safe person. The number of times I've been in the grocery store or or we've been walking by the toy aisle, and you've you hear a parent say something like, Well, I'm gonna tell Santa that you are X, Y, Z right now. We need to be safe too. And our kids need to know that we can be people who they can bring their problems to. The world is not a place where our mess, our kids' mess, is always going to be welcome. And so that it needs to be welcome in our home. Like that's the basis of secure attachment. As Eli Harwood, attachment expert, says, uh, you have to give kids a safe home base. Like when you're playing tag and there's like a home base where a kid can go and be safe from being tagged, like that has to be home. And you can't have that place be a place where they're constantly being watched and assessed and monitored. And immediately, by the way, this was my son's, my oldest's aversion to Santa and Elf on a shelf. Like, immediately he was like, What do you mean this thing is watching me? I am not okay with that. And even if it's not the removal, by the way, of presents, like, oh, if you aren't good, I'm gonna you're gonna not gonna get any presents. Even if it's the reward side, the other side of this coin, we still have the question: should we be using rewards like presents from Santa and Christmas to incentivize good behavior? I actually have a snippet here that I'm gonna play from an interview that I did for an upcoming episode of the podcast. It'll be later on in this season, from Alfie Cohn, who wrote a book called Punished by Rewards. But anyway, this is this is his take on rewards with kids.
SPEAKER_00:Studies have continued to show that children who are frequently rewarded or praised by their parents tend to be less generous and caring than other kids. You might lose the behavior of getting them to do something. But now the point is to see that activity as a means to an end.
SPEAKER_05:I want to stop here for a moment and ask you if you're enjoying this episode of the Whole Parent Podcast, to subscribe wherever you're listening, to rate this episode and review the podcast. I read every single review myself. They are what keep me going. And I I want you to go and do one extra thing for me here, and that's to share it with at least three friends in your life. Uh, you can share it on social media, I think that that's great, but I want you to actually send this episode to three people in your life. Who have kids between the ages of three and ten and say, hey, check this out, especially your friends maybe who have already talked about this. Are we doing Santa? Are you not doing Santa? And send it to them. You have no idea how much it helps, not only me to grow the podcast, to get more listeners, to keep us going, doing this thing, but also how it how it helps people. You don't know what's helping. And you can just point to this episode, this part in the episode, after you share it with them. And if they say, you know, wait, do you think I'm a bad parent? Why are you sharing this with me? You just say, no, no, no. He just told me I had to share it, and so I'm just doing what I'm supposed to do it, you know. And if you don't do it, I want you to know Santa Claus is watching you, and you're gonna get coal in your stocking for Christmas if you don't share this with three people. Also, if you're looking to start the new year off parenting better, consider pre-ordering my book, Punishment Free Parenting, The Brain-based Way to Raise Kids Without Raising Your Voice. It's available at the link in the description, as well as wherever books are sold. And it's also available on audiobook. So if you like this episode, where I'm kind of doing episodes a little differently, if you didn't know that this season, I'm doing them more similarly to the way that I wrote the book and the audiobook. So chances are if you like this episode, you're gonna love the book. Okay, speaking of the episode, let's get back to it. How do you handle that inevitable moment when your kid looks you in the eye and asks you for real, you know, is Santa real? I'm gonna give you three approaches that I think you can take depending on your child's age and personality. The first one is kind of the classic way of talking to kids about Santa, and that's to frame Santa as a symbol. This works better for older kids, you know, seven or older. And this is where you say something to the extent of like, Santa is real in the sense that he represents the spirit of Christmas or giving or kindness, and grown-ups get to take on that role to keep that magic alive for kids. Now you're old enough, you get to be part of that tradition too. You get to be Santa. And this approach does something that's really cool. It empowers kids to graduate into the role of Santa, which we're going to talk about here in a moment, is a really helpful balancing point for that disappointment that Santa is not real. And especially with older siblings, it can help them feel more empowered, like they're contributing to these acts of kindness, helping the younger siblings. The second way to answer this is to answer the question with a question this is what I would use with younger kids. So if your child's asking you about Santa, but you think you know they really want you to just validate that, you know, Santa is real, you just respond by saying, Well, what do you think? And this gives them a window into their own thought processes and allows you to kind of gauge how much information they're ready for. This can often just lead them to tell you everything that they think about Santa Claus, which might be the reason that they were asking you in the first place, is just to kind of bounce it off of you. And at the end, you can you can validate that. You don't have to then say, like, you know, oh, well, that's not true. Like you can just kind of say, oh, that's that's really cool. Thank you for telling me that. Uh the last way is what I use for more logical kids. And this is just to give them it's uh what I call the it's pretend answer. And it goes something like this: you say, Santa is not a person who lives at the North Pole. This is for the kids who are asking all of the technical questions, you know, about time travel. If you're if you're getting into quantum mechanics to explain Santa Claus, like at this point, we're probably past the point where we should have had the it's pretend conversation. So you say, you know, Santa is not a person who lives at the North Pole, but the story of Santa is something that families, as grown-ups, like to pretend. And it's fun to pretend sometimes. And so you can pretend along with us. And this last approach, the it's pretend approach, is the one that Fred Rogers used in his very infamous 1973 episode of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood called Is Santa Claus Real? It's hard to imagine now that that that show was ever considered controversial, but there are actually a handful of episodes of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood that were incredibly controversial. Some of them so much so that you can't even watch them. I can't find them anywhere. There's a whole week in the 1980s where he talks about nuclear weapons and disarmament. I mean, like he Fred really uh was pretty radical in many respects. But in this, you know, 1973 is Santa Claus Real episode, he effectively tells kids at the end, no, Santa is is just pretend. And it's remembered for that moment when he admits that at the end, and then he sings this song about pretending. But it also features what I think is one of the best children's most poignant uh conversations about Santa in the make-believe world. So in make believe world, if you're familiar with the show, this is where Daniel Tiger lives, this is where the puppets live, and uh Daniel Tiger in this case is is concerned.
SPEAKER_02:Santa Claus is coming to the neighborhood of make-believe. Santa Claus? What's he gonna do to us? Oh, well, I imagine it will be something good. Oh, I try to be good, but I'm not always good. I think I'm afraid of Santa Claus. I wish he weren't coming here.
SPEAKER_05:Daniel basically says, like, he doesn't want Santa to come because Santa is watching him while he's sleeping, and Daniel knows he hasn't always been good. To which Santa, who is being played by one of the kind of regulars on the show, something that Mr. Rogers is going to point out later when they talk about the land of make-believe, that it was just a person in a costume. Santa says, you know, I I'm not even always good.
SPEAKER_02:I am Daniel Striper Tiger, and I'm not always good.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm Santa Claus, and I'm not always good either.
SPEAKER_05:And that he Santa has this line. I I can just imagine Fred writing it.
SPEAKER_01:You aren't? Of course not. Good people aren't always good. They just try to be.
SPEAKER_05:By the end of the episode, I think it's kind of inescapable that Fred is gonna has kind of put on a masterclass in how you can effectively and ethically talk to kids about Santa. But I'm telling you, parents in 1973, according to people who have researched Fred in his life, they were not, they were not happy. They did not feel this way. They felt like the man that they had trusted to teach their kids about emotions had just hurt them. So I think it's important to point out that the reason they felt that way, I think, is because one of the biggest reasons that parents will keep up the Santa charade is because we're afraid of how kids are gonna respond to the truth and react. So the next kind of point here that I want to make is to ask the question: is that fear that our kids are going to be absolutely devastated by learning that Santa is not real grounded in reality for us? And according to Dr. Eileen Kennedy Moore, who's this PhD host of this Kids Ask Doctor Friendastic podcast, which I had never heard of until researching for this episode, she's she says, you know, yes, there's disappointment, but actually it's okay. She's she's phenomenal in this segment that I that I watched. She says, Yeah, you know what, there is going to be disappointment, but it's actually okay. Because if they're act at this age where they're really looking for answers, then they actually need the honesty. And that that if they're at the right age to learn this, which by the way, the right age is not old enough. It's not too old. If they're young enough to learn this, they'll recover quickly. The disappointment is actually also gonna be balanced out, according to her, and this is kind of what we were talking about in that first response, by the sense of growth and pride of being trusted with this adult concept that Santa's not real. But but what is very clear is that that happens if you are able to express that Santa is not real young enough. On the other hand, kids who are gonna, you know, by some miracle, make it to middle school and still believe in Santa, they have a much harder road coming ahead of them. They face a much bigger betrayal. And there are social implications. At some point, it stops being naive and imaginative to believe in this immortal elf who uses his flying reindeer to break into millions of houses around the world to deliver gifts and you know, satiate his seemingly bottomless appetite for cookies and milk. Uh, at some point it just gets weird. Like if you have a 12 or 13-year-old who believes this, their friends are not going to see that as like an endearing quirk. They are going to experience some social blowback as a result of expressing that belief to people in their life. And finding out about Santa too late doesn't you're not going to get the benefit of that pride or the sense of maturity. It becomes a point of shame. So that leads us to kind of the final point in this episode, which is when is the right time to spill the beans? And in the view of some parents, some of my listeners, I'm sure, murder your child's sense of innocence and Christmas magic. I think every parent has to answer this for themselves. It can't be too late, as we've just highlighted. But it doesn't, you don't have to do it when they're four either. I think it depends on the kids. For some kids, Santa is just never going to work. And I think parents who press it when it doesn't work actually wind up going to more harm. This is kind of what happened to Daniel Tiger. The thought of a person coming into your house in the middle of the night, regardless of what they're bringing you, can be unnerving, especially for highly sensitive kids. For other kids, it's it's some it's that kind of underbelly of the tradition, the, you know, he knows when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake. That is going to bother a lot of kids. And if you are unable to divorce that from the myth itself, you may have to kind of end the myth earlier than you might like, because that's a really difficult piece, and a lot of kids have trouble with that. That was the piece for my son. Once he had heard that, he was like, no way, no ho, no way, Jose. For some kids, the tradition is fun and whimsical, and later, once their brain develops, the facts catch up with Saint Nick, and you know, it's a pretty natural, oh yeah, that was just a for fun thing. And yes, for for some, you're gonna have to have a hard conversation that they may not want to have, but for them, it is the kinder option than allowing them to kind of keep perpetuating in this way. And one last note on the win here. It's not always a clear line for our kids or for us. Kids often reflect later that they knew but they chose to keep up the charade, but that might not even have been a conscious choice. For them, the magic was just kind of worth perpetuating. So, with that in mind, I want to end this episode a little bit differently. In our house, we have three boys who have very different views on Santa. I interviewed two of them, and I'm gonna play that for you now. Okay. You can start by saying your name, and yeah, just for people who are listening, say your name and say how old you are.
SPEAKER_03:My name is Matt, and I am eight.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, Matt, I have called you here with a really important set of questions. My first one, uh, I've already kind of told you what we're gonna talk about, but my first one is what do you think about Santa Claus?
SPEAKER_03:Um, I think that I don't think he's real because I don't like the idea of someone just sneaking to our house every year.
SPEAKER_05:What is what do the kids at your school think about Santa?
SPEAKER_03:Most of him, yes. About like two percent of them think that Santa isn't real.
SPEAKER_05:So you're in the minority. There's not very many people who think what you think.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Uh what do you think about your brothers? Do you think that your brothers believe in Santa, or do you think that they don't believe in Santa?
SPEAKER_03:I've never asked them.
SPEAKER_05:If you had to guess.
SPEAKER_03:Probably Liam believes in, and Ollie's like, not so sure.
SPEAKER_05:Can you say your name and how old you are?
SPEAKER_04:Um, what's the name? Um, my actual name or my nickname.
SPEAKER_05:Whichever one you want.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Oliver and four year old.
SPEAKER_05:You're Oliver and you are four years old.
SPEAKER_04:Actually, I'm four and a half year old.
SPEAKER_05:Oliver, who's four and a half years old. Can you tell me about Santa Claus? Tell me what you know about Santa Claus.
SPEAKER_04:Him him give present to somebody.
SPEAKER_05:He gives presents to people? Uh, when does he come?
SPEAKER_04:Um, at nighttime.
SPEAKER_05:He comes at nighttime? What do you think about Santa Claus coming into our house while we're all sleeping?
SPEAKER_04:Um, how can you get into the house him goes in the chimney?
SPEAKER_05:Do you think that's okay that he comes in our house while we're sleeping? To leave us presents?
SPEAKER_04:What's Yeah?
SPEAKER_05:That doesn't make you nervous or anything.
SPEAKER_04:Well, not because husband goes upstairs.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, because he doesn't go upstairs where we sleep, so it's okay.
SPEAKER_04:Well, because our tree's not upstairs, it's downstairs.
SPEAKER_05:He just comes out and he goes to our tree.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and then he puts up presents under the tree.
SPEAKER_05:Nice. So do you think that it's okay that grown ups do Santa with kids, or do you think do you wish that grown-ups didn't do Santa?
SPEAKER_03:I wish that grown-ups didn't do Santa.
SPEAKER_05:Really? Why?
SPEAKER_03:Because it's like if you're good you get presents. If you're bad, you either get cold or nothing.
SPEAKER_05:What if that part of Santa was gone? So what if we took away the good and the bad part? What do you think about Santa then?
SPEAKER_03:A little bit better, but still not the idea of someone sneaking into your house.
SPEAKER_05:Does he care if kids have been good or bad? Um or do you think that he just gives presents to everyone? He's a he just gives presents to the good people.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I'm I'm a good piss since I say silly things like the poopy stuff I say.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, you are a good person. If we decide to do Santa this year with Ollie, are you going to help us do it, or are you gonna tell him that Santa's not real? What do you think?
SPEAKER_04:I'll help him.
SPEAKER_05:Do you think that Map believes in Santa Claus?
SPEAKER_03:What believes is Santa Claus? I like playing along. I play along with my friends next door all the time. Like if they see like mom would pull in and it was like really dark, they would think, oh no, there's a monster snake in your house. I'll just be like, oh no. Even though I know it's my mom.
SPEAKER_05:Do you think that it's okay if other kids believe in Santa, or do you think that that's anyone can believe what anyone wants to believe. Thank you for being on the podcast, man.
SPEAKER_03:You're welcome.
SPEAKER_05:Thank you for your time listening to the whole parent podcast today. I hope you got something out of it. I have a couple quick favors to ask of you as we end the episode. The first one is to jump over on whatever podcast platform that you are listening to right now and rate this show five stars. You'll notice there are a lot of five-star ratings on this show, whether that's on Spotify or Apple Music or Apple Podcasts. We have a ton of five-star ratings and it helps our podcast get out to more people than almost any other parenting podcast out there. And so it's a really quick thing that you can do if you have 15 or 20 seconds. And if you have an additional 30 seconds, I'd love to read a review from you. I read all the reviews that come through. If some if you particularly like one part of the podcast or you like when I talk about something or whatever, imagine that you're writing that review directly to me. The second thing that you can do is go and send this episode to somebody in your life who you think could use it. Think about all the parents in your life. Think about your friends, your family members who could use a little bit of help parenting. It's vulnerable to share an episode of a parenting podcast with them. I get it. But imagine how much better your life is as a result of listening to this podcast, of following me on social media, of getting the emails that I send out. You can share that with someone else too. And so I encourage you, just go over, shoot them a quick text, share this episode with them, or share another episode that you feel like is particularly relevant to them. The last thing you can do is go down to the link show notes at the bottom. And like I said in the mid-roll, you can subscribe on Substack. It's$5 a month or$50 a year. Uh, I don't have that many people doing it, and yet the people who are doing it have made this possible. And so if you like this episode, if you like all of the episodes, if you want them to continue, the only way that I can keep making them is through donor support, free will donations to the podcast. Please, please, please, please, as you're thinking about the end of this year, as you're thinking about your charitable giving, I know I'm not a 501c3. You can't write it off on your taxes, but if you'd like to give me a little gift to just say thank you for what you've done this year, the best way to do that is over on Substack. Again,$5 a month,$50 a year. It's not going to break the bank. It's probably less than you spend on coffee every week. Definitely less than you spend on coffee every week. Maybe uh less than you spend on almost anything, right? Five bucks a month is very, very small, but it goes a long way when it's multiplied by all of the different people who listen to the podcast and sending that over to me. I get all of that money. It's just my way of being able to produce the podcast, spend money on equipment, spend money on subscription fees, hosting fees for the podcast, all of that stuff. Email server fees, all that. So if you're willing to do that, I would love it. Thank you so much for listening to this episode, and I'll see you next time. Do you know any songs about Santa Claus?
SPEAKER_04:Um, he comes Santa Claus, he comes Santa Claus.
SPEAKER_05:You don't know any more of that song, you just know that part of the song.
