The Whole Parent Podcast
The Whole Parent Podcast
My Partner and I Disagree on Parenting #012
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The originator of the HEAR acronym is Dr Julia Minson of Harvard
Have you ever felt like your parenting style is worlds apart from your partner's, yet you both yearn for a harmonious household? Together, we weave through the complexities of parenting partnerships and the artistry of conflict resolution. This episode brings you heartfelt stories and expert insights on empathetic communication, crucial for aligning with your partner to foster resilient children and a compassionate relationship. We delve into the transformative power of seeing through each other's eyes, understanding the roots of each other's parenting approaches, and how this profound connection can keep conflicts at bay — especially in the eyes of our littlest observers.
Join us as we unpack the delicate balance between differing parenting philosophies and reveal strategies to present a united front. My journey with my wife and the challenges we've faced lay the groundwork for a candid discussion on establishing household rules that respect both parental perspectives and children's needs. We bring to life the "HEAR" communication framework to tackle discipline and other parenting hot topics, offering a lifeline for those in the throes of navigating these stormy seas with their partner.
As we wrap this episode, I extend an invitation to delve deeper through a workshop that promises to fortify your co-parenting toolkit. It's a genuine solo effort to elevate your parenting partnership, free from outside influences or sponsorships, and driven by our shared experiences and community support. For all parents and partners out there seeking a blend of gentle guidance and psychological know-how, this is an episode you won't want to miss.
The first step in any partnership relationship is empathy. The fundamental reason why marriages fall apart, in my experience, is a lack of an ability to perspective, take and have empathy for your partner. If I could say one thing that would fix the majority of marriages, it is that Whenever you are communicating with a person who disagrees with you on anything, but especially a person who you deeply love, who you want to continue to be a partner to, who you want to raise resilient kids with, is to try, is to listen, to understand and to try and find common values. It's a brand new day. Wake up every morning and say it's a brand new day. Take a good day. Make it great. Okay, hello, and welcome to another episode of the Whole Parent Podcast.
Speaker 1:I am so excited that you have decided to tune out the rest of the world and tune in today to talk about parenting and, specifically today, talking about partnership in parenting. How do we partner together? Was that the right word? How do we join together with our partners compassionately, who may have different parenting approaches than us? This is something that I get asked all the time, because one of the unique things about me in this space in the parenting space, I should say is that I am a dad, I am a guy, and there are very few men who don't have advanced degrees, who are just dads talking about these things with any sort of platform. The vast majority of people who talk about parenting are women, and the vast majority of my followers as well as the vast majority of people who follow parenting accounts, I would expect are women, and so I tend to get asked this question more than other people, and I have had several people either DM me questions like these and or email them to me. This is something that we've done a workshop about inside the membership.
Speaker 1:How do we help our partners to get on board with our parenting? If we are, whatever the situation is right, how do we work with another person to parent effectively? Because all of us come from our own stories. We have our own backgrounds, we have our own contexts. We each have a family of origin, and I really, really hope that you come from a different family of origin than your partner. If you don't, we got things to talk about, but because we come from different families, it means things were done differently in our houses, and that means that we are gonna have a different, a factory default, for our parenting. We also have different personalities, we have different priorities, and with all of these things we wind up with two people trying to raise often one or more humans and collaborate with one another in ways that are deeply vulnerable and often lead to some conflict, and so there is a lot of conflict between partners. It is normal. In the work that I do at Whole Parent, I primarily talk to parents about parenting, about parenting their children, but in my other job I also do marriage counseling. I talk to people about marriages, I talk to people about partnerships and effective communication, and so I do have some background in this. I have also talked to many parents, probably hundreds of parents. At this point, I would say we have had conversations about how we can help our partner to get on board with a more healthy, compassionate, empathetic and effective view of parenting, and so I've consolidated a lot of that stuff down into this episode.
Speaker 1:We're gonna spend time on three questions, as we always do, questions that we've gotten from our community. If you didn't know this already, you can submit a question to podcasts podcast singular at wholeparentacademycom, if you would like to have one of your questions featured, potentially on the podcast. So, podcast at wholeparentacademycom to submit questions. That's the best way to submit questions, because if you submit them to me via DM or other ways, they are more likely to get lost. So podcast at wholeparentacademycom. And when we get questions, we organize them into categories, and so here are three questions about what to do when your partner disagrees in some way with the way in which you are parenting, or when you disagree in some way with the way in which your partner is parenting.
Speaker 1:In this episode we are gonna cover these three questions, but we're gonna do so in a little bit of a different way. We are going to kind of overlay a framework that I've worked with. It's a conflict resolution framework that I've worked with not only parents, but people in all industries related to this. So I used to be an HR. This is a framework that we used in human resources, with managers and their employees generally. I'm trying to think of the right word for that. They're the superiors and they're, I don't wanna say, inferiors. Why am I forgetting what this is called? This is as soon as I started to record the podcast. I just forget all the words of the English language. But anyway, this is what we have worked with managers. I've worked with this, like I said so many times, in different parenting contexts. I've worked with this in so many different partnership contexts, so we're gonna be overlaying that framework, so it's gonna be a little bit of a different episode, but I really really do believe that this would be super, super helpful for all of those who are interested and, as I said before, if you are interested in the membership, please, if you're interested, you should join, especially if this episode resonates with you, because we have a workshop inside the membership that is available for replay for all members. As long as you're a member, you can watch it.
Speaker 1:And it is on this very topic how do we get our partners on board with our parenting approach, or how do we help ourselves to get more on board with our partner's parenting approach? So let's just jump right into the first question. I've already talked enough about the structure of this episode. Let's start answering questions. So the first one comes from Melissa. She says I feel like my partner and I just can't see eye to eye on our parenting approach. Yes, melissa, this is so, so common. You are not alone. We've got two little guys, jack, who is five, and Mason, who is three. I really believe in being a compassionate and understanding with them and using natural consequences to guide rather than to punish. Unsurprising, melissa, you follow my account. But Rob, my husband, sees things differently. He's all about showing who's in charge, with strict rules and punishments not physical, thankfully. He thinks that the only way that they'll learn and be prepared for the I'm sorry he thinks that's the only way they'll learn and be prepared for the real world. How can I find common ground with Rob so that we're both raising our kids in a way that feels right to us? Such a great question, melissa, and I really like that you highlight here. How can I find common ground?
Speaker 1:I think that the first step in any partnership relationship is empathy. The fundamental reason why marriages fall apart, in my experience, is a lack of an ability to perspective, take and have empathy for your partner. If I could say one thing that would fix the majority of marriages, it is that and I say this all the time on different platforms this is part of the reason why I'm so big on empathy with kids is because when you model empathy to your kids, then you condition them or you kind of set them up to observationally learn what empathy looks like, and then they can then act empathetically to their peers and especially to their adult relationships someday. And a fundamental lack of empathy is what is usually the breakdown in most relationships, when the issue is not mental illness, addiction or domestic violence, in just relationships that are irreconcilable differences, primarily those. Those tend to be because somebody lacks perspective taking, an empathy, and I would even say a lot of infidelity comes from people who fundamentally misunderstand. Often in both you have the person who it goes outside the marriage and the person who who doesn't. A lot of times that has to has to do with the fact that one or both parties really really fundamentally lack the ability to perspective taken.
Speaker 1:So I really like that you start here, and that's actually where I'm going to start with my advice here, which is to find common values. This is going to make even more sense, melissa, when I get into the broader construct that we're going to be talking about. But the first step with whenever you are Communicating with a person who disagrees with you on anything, but especially a person who you deeply love, who you want to, you know, continue to be a partner to, who you want to raise resilient kids with, is to try, is to listen, to understand and to try and find common values. So in this case, rob seems to to think that you know, hey, I want my children to be prepared for the real world, right? So that's one of the things that Rob has identified.
Speaker 1:I feel that if the way that I'm parenting is Preparing my children for the real world, well, melissa, I would guess, if you're following my account, if you're talking about long-term effects of parenting, if you are taking the long view of Child development and not just being, you know, arbitrarily permissive to make your life easier, which you know always backfires and you'd want to make your life a lot not easier, a lot harder than you also would share this goal. I want my kids to be prepared for the real world as well. You just see that the approach to getting to that point is different than what Rob is offering, and so, first and foremost, identifying what your shared goals are for your children, what your common values are for your children, will help you find not just a middle ground but a way to communicate with deep love, respect and empathy To this person who you are parenting with. If you go in trying to prove the person wrong, even if you're right, they will automatically get defensive if you go in instead Trying to look for the places where you agree primarily, then you are going to find that it's much, much more effective and and I don't ever talk about politics on this podcast, but I will point this out about the at least American political system right now Up until about the mid to late 2000s, we had a system in the United States where politicians fundamentally Attempted to look like at least they were leading with perspective taking, finding a middle ground and then saying, hey, we both want this shared for goal and value.
Speaker 1:But I have this approach and my opponent has this approach to that right. This is, you see, all these classic videos from like 2008, 2012, where the presidential nominees from both parties are kind of Using those terms, they're they're trying to find a middle ground. What has happened recently in American politics is that they are less interested in getting anything done and anything accomplished and they're more interested in kind of solidifying their base and inciting their base, because rage is a powerful motivator to go out and vote, and so People from both parties that there some, some what Interested in just trying to incite their base, and so this seeps into our dialogue with our partners, where so many partners I'm finding today have no interest in finding common ground. They just want to win.
Speaker 1:And I'm just telling you right now, if you, if you start from the perspective of trying to convince Rob to be that you, that you are right even if I may agree with you, melissa, that your way is a better way you are starting from a losing proposition. You have to find a way that is a win-win for both of you, where Rob feels like, hey, this is working, this is effective. This is hitting on the types of goals that I would be prioritizing for my kids setting them up, you know, long term for for success and, at the same time, doing so in a way that that aligns with your values. So it has to be a win-win right it and I would say, in in the best case scenario, there are no losers in a relationship. There are never a time there, shirt. Certainly there will be times when you're you have to apologize to your partner. Your partner has to apologize to you in the same way. The same thing happens with kids. They'll apologize to you, you'll have to apologize to them, but primarily when we're talking about these big macro things and this is going to go for all of the parents who I'm talking to today, all the questions.
Speaker 1:If we can't find a way to get to a win-win perspective, we are really, really going to struggle to move forward. So please, please, please, please, prioritize, beginning with empathetic listening and finding of common values. Look for the ways where you both want the same thing. And here's the truth that nobody wants to admit. All of the parents who come from an authoritarian, protritorian perspective, who deeply love their kids, even those parents who may spank, even those parents who may Practice parenting tactics that are so far beyond what I would say is healthy and relationally good parenting. Those parents, usually, are doing so because they have the same value set I want my child to be successful, I want them to be happy, I want them to be fulfilled, I don't want them to get in a bunch of trouble. Right, they are doing so from this place and they are probably deeply afraid that if they change their parenting tactics, the way in which they were raised, then they, the result will be, hey, something bad will happen to my kid. You know, this is the thing that often we don't like to say and talk about. But when you do, when, when you were raised in a certain way and the outcome is here you are today that feels safe to raise your kids the exact same way, because you at least know how that path turned out for you. It's much scarier to go in and say I'm gonna do things differently Because you don't necessarily know. You have to rely on data and research and experts and child development Specialists who are going to tell you that that might be a better way. But you don't have any personal anecdotal experience with that, and so that can feel very threatening. And so this is the second aspect to this is that once you find common values and goals, melissa, the second thing that I want you to do is I want you to take yourself out of the equation as the person who's going to change Rob's perspective on Healthy parenting techniques. So obviously I don't know if you know this, but but and you should know this if you, if you've Listen to whole parent for any period of time, and certainly if you're listening to me on this podcast for any period of time I am an anti punishment person.
Speaker 1:I I believe in zero punishment in parenting. I think that punishment fundamentally works against our kids, not for our kids. It's not effective. We're not even talking about the ethics of punishment. Here I'm talking about the effectiveness of punishment. From a psychological, neuro Anatomy, neuropsychology perspective, punishment tends to the work far worse than alternatives to punishment. So I Don't want you, melissa, to be the person who tries to convince Rob of that. Instead, what I want you guys to do is consider a concept of learning together, learning in partnership.
Speaker 1:Go out and find a parenting podcast that you both can commit to, listening to somebody who you can both get on board with, who, who advocates for positive parenting techniques and effective parenting techniques, while also speaking in a way that Rob can understand and I'm obviously in this podcast. I think that that's me right, but but maybe it's not. Maybe Rob would listen to me and go I can't stand this guy, I don't want to listen to this guy. This guy sucks, whatever. But if you got to find somebody who can bridge that gap, so that you're not the one trying to convince Rob Because you don't want to get into a position where it's oppositional and now it's if we do it this way, melissa wins and if we do it this way, rob wins that that type of win-lose mentality in Relationships is toxic. It's toxic, so it's not going to set your relationship up well, and it's not going to open that person up to actually appreciating learning and development from a non-dispensive perspective.
Speaker 1:So instead, learn in tandem. Find resources, whether that's a podcast or parenting book that you guys can both read or both listen to the audio version of, or a parenting creator on a social media platform that you guys can both follow, although that's usually not as good, because Social media is full of like one minute videos and that's that's. You're never going to really really change your videos or change your life With one minute videos. Right? You need longer form content, a parenting email list that you can get on. Whatever it is that you guys can do. Learn together so that you guys can discuss this third party teaching you, rather than trying to be the one who, for example, listens to my podcast, then goes to your husband and says here's what I learned on this podcast and here's why it's right and here's why you're wrong. That will not be nearly as effective. So learn together and find a place of common values. That's how I'm going to start for you, melissa, and then I want you to listen to the rest of the episode, because we're going to get into this paradigm that that can. That's going to emphasize some of the things that we've already talked about and that might be an effective way to actually Communicate this to Rob, beyond just learning together.
Speaker 1:Okay, so now, pivoting off, we're gonna go to Rachel, and Rachel is having a somewhat similar issue, kind of all of these are similar issues, but from a little bit of a different perspective. So Rachel says I'm feeling really frustrated because my partner can't seem to agree on how to parent our six-year-old daughter Whenever she misbehaves. My partner is more lenient, which I feel undermines my authority and confuses my daughter. I wanna be on the same page when it comes to discipline and setting boundaries, but we always end up arguing about it. Any suggestions? Yes, many suggestions.
Speaker 1:The first thing don't allow your parenting to become a battleground place. Right? This is not a place where we're fighting. This is a place where we're working towards a common goal. When you're on a team with your partner working towards a common goal, you are much more likely to work with that person, even within their strengths and in spite of their weaknesses. When I am on a team with someone in whole parent land, or when I'm writing, when I recently have been in the process of editing the book that I wrote in the fall that will be available for publication sometime in 2025, early 2025. When I'm working with my editors and things like that and the people who designed the cover and all that, I could look at the ways in which I don't really like what they're doing. But what I know at the core is that all of us have the same goal, which is to make this the best book possible, and so I'm actually able to overlook many of their shortcomings because we share the common goal of making the whole parent book, whatever the title is. Whenever you're listening to this, maybe you already have a title by the time you hear this, but, as the best possible thing that it can be, this is the same thing. That's true when you're if you want the metaphor, it's a little bit more clear building a house.
Speaker 1:Right, you have a person who does the framing, you have people who do the drywall, you have people who do the plumbing and the electrical and et cetera, et cetera. One of these people may not be good at certain things. For example, electricians kind of in tongue-in-cheek, I don't want to shame any electricians, but notably they tend to be pretty rough on the drywall when they go in to fix things. So the drywall guys could easily shame and try and be mean to, or aggressive or angry at the electrical guy who maybe was not as careful with the drywall as they could have been. Or you can identify that both parties are working towards the same goal and the electrician could say here's what I need from the drywall team and the drywall team could say here's what I need from the electrical to make this work together because we're working towards a shared goal.
Speaker 1:You cannot get into an oppositional space where you're constantly arguing right. So how do you avoid this? Number one, you got to stop fighting in the moment. I'm not saying it's totally not okay to fight in front of your kids. It's okay to fight in front of your kids. This is like an old 90s adage never fight in front of your kids. That's actually bad advice, because your kids need to watch effective conflict resolution, including when it's heated. They need to watch you do that. They need to watch you work that out and you need to then process with them later. Hey, I was upset and this is how I said this and this are the things that I maybe regret, and here's how I apologized, et cetera, et cetera. It's okay to fight in front of your kids. It's totally okay within reason, right? Not all the time, but in a normal amount, totally okay.
Speaker 1:What I'm saying, though, is that if you're fighting, always in the moment, about the thing, you never do, this boundary, you are constantly undermining my authority, et cetera, et cetera. In the moment when it's happening, everybody's triggered, everybody's in there amygdala, everybody's in their fight or flight, nobody's learning anything and no conflict is actually being resolved, hear me. So don't fight, then, about those things. Don't, instead, sit down after the kids are in bed, after a good night, after a positive experience, when you guys are both regulated in calm, when everybody's had enough sleep and everybody's full of delicious food and everybody go on a date night and talk about this. Get a sitter and go out and have this conversation. What are some basic rules that we can agree on that happens, that can work within our paradigm?
Speaker 1:So this is actually a problem that I've had with my wife. The gender roles are reversed here, because I'm the one who feels like my wife undermines my authority at times, right, and we had to actually come up with two kind of fundamental. One of them was a mindset shift and one of them was a rule, and so the first rule that we had to name or actually two rules was the reason why I felt like my wife was undermining my authority was that I was trying to protect her time in the morning to get ready from my kids interrupting that and often derailing that process. So she sleeps in a little bit later than I do, she tends to have a little bit more trouble sleeping and so she tends to sleep in. I tend to get up with the kids. It's not 100% of the time, but maybe 99% of the time. That's how our relationship functions and it functions extremely well. We're very happy with this outcome of me getting up with the kids. So when she gets up, I often wanna try and protect the first 20 or 30 minutes so that she can get ready, she can take a shower, she can do all the things.
Speaker 1:Oftentimes my kids will want to go to her, especially when there's any conflict between me and my kids, because especially my oldest will feel often and he's identified this that mom will kind of give in or be more empathetic than dad is being in that moment, which a lot of people are like wow, you're not always empathetic. No, I'm not. I'm not a perfect parent by any stretch, and I had just made this arbitrary rule with my kids that nobody's allowed to go upstairs to see mom before. I don't remember what the time was until mom comes down, I think that was it, and my wife felt deeply uncomfortable with this. She said I don't want my kids to want me and then not be available and me not be available to my kids.
Speaker 1:And so we came up with two rules One, I was not to stop my kids from going to my wife, and two, she would not discuss with them the way in which I was parenting without me present in those moments. So I was afraid of letting them go upstairs for her good, but also because I was afraid that she might undermine me. She said if you always let them come upstairs, then I will alternatively not talk about what happened downstairs and how I agree or disagree with how you were handling the situation, and those two things really, really, really helped. But we had to sit down and actually have that conversation of like okay, what do you need out of this and what do I need out of this? Because what was happening was she was just like well, you're being super, super unreasonable that you won't let them come to me and I was like, well, you're being super, super unreasonable that you're letting them when I say no. So she's like don't make that a rule. You can't have, one of the ways in which I'm undermining you, a fundamental value of mine, which is I let my kids come to me. So this is kind of convoluted me, rachel. But when we're talking about this, when we're identifying these, we have to be able to agree on some basic rules, and doing so in a place outside of the high energy, high stress environment of in those moments when things are breaking down, when one parent feels like the other parent is being undermining or permissive or whatever. So that's really good.
Speaker 1:And then, secondly, secondly, equally importantly, regular check-ins. Regular check-ins. So not only are we gonna agree on these kind of boundaries and rules of how we're going to parent together, even if we have slightly different approaches, we're also gonna have check-ins to say how is this going for you, how is this going for me, how are these things going in general? Do we feel like this has been effective? Do we feel like it's continuing to be effective? Those regular check-ins are really, really essential.
Speaker 1:And, again, these check-ins are not in the moment. Heated moments these are, if you have to scheduled times, when you say, hey, every Friday or every Thursday at dinner we're gonna talk about how parenting is going, whatever that looks like for you. But it is massively important that you don't just agree on a set of rules and then just say, oh, those are the rules or these are the boundaries you have to check in. Because even in our case, with me and my wife, the problem was not the agreed upon like. We had agreed upon a rule of I don't let the kids come upstairs until you're ready, that we needed to have a check-in where that was like, yeah, I actually I don't feel that way anymore. I really, in retrospect, feel like they need to be able to come to me when they need me. That was just her thing, and so we needed to be able to work together within that.
Speaker 1:And then the last piece of this and this goes for all of the questions today I'm just choosing to say it now, at this point in the episode, but I could easily say this later on and the last question I'm gonna finally lay out the framework that kind of all of these things have been pointing to. Maybe I should have done that at the very beginning. I don't really know how to structure these podcasts episodes. I'm just doing the best I can, guys. But the last thing I'm gonna say here that goes for all things in parenting is please, please, please, please, seek help when you need it If you feel that you really cannot agree, if you feel that you really cannot find positive.
Speaker 1:You know aspects to what's going on that you cannot find common ground, that you cannot find shared values, that you are your partner or you are just not participating in the regular check-ins, you're not participating in empathy and perspective taking. It's okay and actually really good to go and seek help, in this case with my wife, that it was a long process for us to figure out the path forward, and it involved and included me having a conversation actually more than one conversation with my own therapist about why this was so triggering to me that the way in which I felt my wife was undermining me and behaving Like it took me doing my own self-work in order that I could even have those conversations effectively with my wife. So do not in any way demonize or feel like you are above or feel like therapy would not help you. You don't have to go to therapy forever. Many people go for a period of time and then they stop. Or they start and they stop, or they, you know, have multiple therapists over a 10 year span, whatever Feel. So it is massively important that you are both connected to your children and your child, that you're not violating your fundamental values as a partner or as a parent, and so if you feel like there is just no path to communicating in an effective way, if everything that I'm about to say in the last question just feels like it totally falls flat and doesn't work, please, please, go and seek help. All right, so we're about to get into this framework hardcore with this third question. It's gonna make all the stuff that we're talking about kind of line up and make sense.
Speaker 1:But before that, a quick note from our sponsors. Hey, this is John. We don't actually have any sponsors on this podcast. It's just me. Nobody sponsors this podcast, it is all me. I record every episode, I edit every episode, I post every episode, I do the descriptions and the transcripts and everything else for every episode, with some help of some online tools. So there are no sponsors, and so what that means is that if you wanna thank somebody, you're not gonna go purchase any products. The way to thank me is to join the email list, is to rate and review this podcast, is to share it with somebody that you know, is to continue to engage and download episodes, to subscribe on all the social media channels, but especially to the podcast, so that you're getting regular downloads every single week.
Speaker 1:If this stuff is helping you, do not keep it to yourself. Share it with every parent in your life. Shout it from the mountain tops. As I said at the very beginning of this episode with Melissa and Rob, there are so many couples out there, so many parenting partnerships out there, that would benefit from not having to constantly debate over who's right and who's wrong in parenting, and that they could just. You know, hey, I listened to this podcast with my spouse. My husband listens to it. It makes sense to him. It's a guy. It's not, you know, one of these gentle parenting people. It's just like a guy who's talking about effective parenting and, yeah, some of it aligns up with gentle parenting and some of it's more like neuropsychology and that works for my husband.
Speaker 1:The number of times I have heard that from people is, at this point, I can't even count. It's so common, and so please don't keep this to yourself. Share it with a person that you know, even if it's a person that you know who might not totally love this podcast. Maybe they have a partner for whom this podcast could be the corner that they turn and they start parenting more effectively. They start parenting smarter and not harder. They start parenting with their kid's brain in mind instead of parenting out of their own triggers and trauma, whatever that is.
Speaker 1:Whoever you can share this with, please do so. And if you don't know anybody who you can share it with, I challenge you you do. You know five to 10 to 100 people that you could probably share it with, but if you don't, can't think of any of those people or you feel too uncomfortable to share it interpersonally which is the best way to share anything throw it up on your social media. Say, hey, I'm listening to this episode and I feel like it's super helpful for somebody out there in the world. Just take that leap of faith. And if you're not even willing to do that, just go in and rate and review this podcast on some podcast app. You don't even have to use your real name. You can rate it anonymously. Nobody has to know, but throw five stars on there and let me know what you think about it.
Speaker 1:I read every single review that we get. Seriously, I read every single one and it honestly. The reviews are often the thing that keeps me going. Podcasts are hard to track. I don't know how many times it's being downloaded all the time, I don't know on which apps. I don't know how many people listen to the episode or just download it and let it rot on their phone, and so the way that I know that you're there, the way that I know that you're listening and that you're growing and that you feel like this is good and helpful to you, is when you go ahead and throw up a review. So please do that. All right, that's it from our sponsor, which is just me.
Speaker 1:Let's get back to the episode. Okay, our final question comes from Rachel and she is feeling really frustrated. She says she can't seem to agree with her partner on. Oh, I'm sorry, that was all right. Our final question comes from Jason. He's having a tough time because him and his partner have totally different parenting styles. Four year old son is starting to pick up on this and causing some confusion for him. I tend to be more strict and believe in setting clear boundaries, while my partner is more permissive and accommodating, in my opinion, sometimes to a fault. How can we find a balance where our child receives consistent and effective parenting? All right here, finally, is the framework. The framework comes from a conflict transformation world.
Speaker 1:I don't know who the first person who came up with it is. To be honest, I'm sure that if I Googled it I could find out, but I didn't Google it ahead of this episode and so I'm sorry if I'm not crediting the right person when I do the show notes. I will try and find it and drop it in the show notes, but it is an acronym here H-E-A-R, and it works. It's a way of which we can communicate with someone who fundamentally disagrees about some aspect of life, and it is massively helpful for parents who disagree with their partner on parenting styles. But it can be used in all places. It can be used with your own families. It can be used in religious contexts you disagree with somebody in religious space. It can be used in politics at Thanksgiving. It can be used all over the place. And so what does this acronym stand for? How do we use it? How can we use it, in this case for Jason with his wife, with their four year old. How can we talk about parenting?
Speaker 1:And the first step in the acronym H-E-A-R is H, which is hedging. But I like to call it humility, right, because hedging is just basically saying using language that indicates that you are not 100% sure about everything that you're saying, that you're not the definitive expert on anything. It's very easy to do when you actually are humble enough to appreciate that you're still learning and growing, that you don't have all the answers. So hedging language is language that uses terms like might you know? I might be right about this, I'm not sure, or have you ever thought they could be? All of these are types of hedging statements. You're not saying this is the way it is, punishment is ineffective. Instead, you say something like yeah, you know, sometimes I wonder if punishment is even effective. It's. Hedging statements are just statements that do not trigger defensiveness in our conversation partner.
Speaker 1:So with a person. When we're in conflict with a person, the number one thing that happens is that they we communicate in such a way that they throw up a gigantic stone, brick mental wall. They say this person disagrees with me, I disagree with them, I have nothing to learn from them. They probably will not listen to me, and so I'm going to shut down all communication. I'm just going to be profoundly defensive. If you watch any debate in politics, I'm talking more about politics in this episode than any episode I've ever made of this podcast. Maybe I've ever talked about it. Watch any debate.
Speaker 1:Nobody uses hedging language, right? Because they're trying to appeal to their base. They're not necessarily trying to change the person's mind who they're communicating with, and so this is a massive, massively helpful thing that you can do, and it's so, so easy. Just, instead of saying I don't think that that's a good punishment, you know, I don't think that you should be, you know, giving our kid a time out, you instead say something like hey, I don't really know what the best thing to do here, but I just feel like maybe giving him a time out it's not going to be super effective. Hedging statements just push people's defensiveness down, and so if you really want to help your conversation to be fruitful and to grow together, use hedging language every single time. All right, e, I'm just trying to move right through this. E emphasize areas of agreement. E is emphasize areas of agreement.
Speaker 1:This is what we talked about in our first little section with Melissa, where we said we're going to find some common values. We have to begin after we're hedging. We also have to find the places where we agree. So let's let's take a pretty extreme example here. I'm going to, I'm going to use the example of spanking. So this is not something that anybody has identified on on any of these questions. So nobody will feel like I'm calling them out specifically but say you have a parent, one parent, who's spanking, and the other parent would kind of knows the research and science behind this.
Speaker 1:They listen to the podcast. They know hitting kids is one of the most ineffective ways of parents, of parenting, that you can possibly do. There is no basis in developmental psychology or behavioral psychology that says that hitting any child is a good idea. Not only is it unethical like they know, all this stuff right it can cause long-term harm, leads to antisocial behavior, it can lead to violent behavior later in life all of these things right. So one partner knows this. The other partner is just going hey, look, I was spanked as a kid. I turned out great, so therefore I'm going to spank my kids, right? So we're going to start with a hedging statement hey, I just feel like spanking might not be the way that we are best approaching discipline in this case. You know I'm not a discipline expert, I don't know all the answers here, but it really feels like this is not going to work and I feel like I've read places that this is not super good for kids long-term. That's the hedging statement.
Speaker 1:Then we're going to pivot to emphasizing areas of agreement. I agree that the behavior that our kid did is inappropriate and I feel like we agree that we don't want our kid to do that anymore. I think that we can agree that with that, and I also agree that you know, we don't want them to grow up to just be a schmuck, right, like. We want to make sure that they're healthy and kind and all of these things. That's the emphasizing agreement. So we immediately pivot to where are shared values? What is our shared goal? It's not, hey, it's okay that you're doing this inappropriate thing with our child. It's, why are they doing that? Are they only doing that because they feel like this is the only effective parenting technique? You know, I've mentioned this, maybe on the podcast, but I'm not exactly sure. I'm pretty sure I mentioned it, maybe even on the last episode, but 70% of parents in 2012, 70% believed that spanking was necessary, necessary. So if you can find the reason why your partner is doing a specific parenting negative parenting technique, you can actually work within that system and say, hey, I agree with the values that we're trying to teach, I just don't necessarily agree with the means. Right, and I might not be right about that, maybe I'm completely off here, but I really feel like this is a. You know, we agree here. We just have to find a common ground.
Speaker 1:Third phase of here H-E-A-R is acknowledge their perspective. This is time when you give your airtime, the time when you're talking, because in conversations, oftentimes both parties especially in conflict and debate, both parties are just waiting to say what their piece. They're waiting to talk, and this is really, really ineffective communication. When we're waiting to talk, we don't listen, and so what you're going to do is you're going to actually turn your opponent I hate to use that word, but that's what it is. When you're disagreeing, oftentimes it feels like they're your opponent, your conversation partner. You're going to turn them into a listener and you're going to do this by becoming a listener yourself. First You're going to model listening and then you're going to demonstrate that you have. So, while they were talking, you are going to hear their perspective. You're actually going to be actively listening.
Speaker 1:So when they say you know, the only thing that's going to work for these kids is spanking, right, that worked for me and it's the only thing that works for kids. That's the only thing that they actually pay attention to, right, you actually listen to what they said. You consider their perspective Honestly. You consider it enough. So you put yourself in their perspective, enough Empathizing with it. Even if you don't empathize with the action, you empathize with the perspective that led to the action, to such an extent that you can then voice that back to them. So, after you've humbled yourself enough to hedge your statements, you've emphasized the area of agreement. Then you're going to give their time airtime. You're going to give their perspective airtime.
Speaker 1:I hear what you're saying, that you feel sometimes like you feel like if you don't spank, then your kids never going to listen, but that's the only thing that kids respond to. You feel like you only responded to your parents when they spanked you. I hear you. I think that, like you, have a valid perspective here and that, along with the hedging, is so incredibly disarming, because all of us just want to be heard deep down. Your kid just wants to be heard, your partner just wants to be heard, and so when you actually hear them that's why the acronym is here and then model to them that you've heard them hey, here's your perspective.
Speaker 1:And then I add a little note to this A, you ask them for clarification and confirmation and say, hey, am I getting that right? Is that your perspective? I just want to make sure that I understand, because I really do want to understand your perspective here. It allows them the space to actually hear you because they've been heard. People will not hear until they've been heard. People will not seek to understand until they have been understood Period. We're all just humans and so if you really want to be heard and understood, you have to hear and understand. That's fundamental. So you're going to humble yourself enough to hedge. You're going to emphasize your agreement, your understanding, knowledge of their perspective and make sure that you actually get it right. You're going to ask for clarification if you don't.
Speaker 1:And then and finally, you are going to give the alternative, and this is where we have to reframe it, not as a something that they shouldn't do, but as something they should do. Instead, look for positive discipline strategies, whether that's negative consequences whatever, negative consequences, natural consequences, whatever and reframe to the positive. So you're going to say next time that she does XYZ, next time that he does XYZ, I feel that we should really just let him experience the consequences of his actions. Next time that he gets a bad grade on the test, whatever, instead of doing this grounding whatever, we should just let him fail. Maybe that's really what he needs. He needs to have that experience and maybe that's how he's going to finally learn.
Speaker 1:Now your partner may disagree with you, but you've done, you've now communicated with them so effectively that it's very unlikely that they're going to disagree with you in an aggressive manner or they're going to shut you down. And even if they disagree with you in the moment, your words are going to stick around for a lot longer bouncing around, and they're not again. So when it comes to Jason, specifically the four-year-old son with Max and your partner, who's, in this case, kind of the opposite, more permissive let's just go through. I'm going to walk you through. I could probably do this for all three of them, but I'm just going to do it for you, jason. Here's how I do it.
Speaker 1:Humble first, hey, I notice with our four-year-old a lot of times you kind of just it feels like you just kind of give in to whatever he wants. Maybe I'm totally getting that wrong, maybe I just don't see it. That's just what it feels like to me and I don't know. But it feels like that could maybe be leading to some confusion for him, because I don't tend to do that hedging. I know that we both want our son to be happy. I know that we both really value that he is kind and compassionate and I see so many ways in which you're doing that so well. I know that that's a goal and I share that goal with you. I share that hope for him.
Speaker 1:Emphasizing agreement, acknowledging perspective In this case. I don't know what your partner has just communicated, but I'm going to just take a stab at it. I can hear that when you're doing that, you feel like what you're really doing is just getting through those hard moments so that you can teach the skills later on. I understand that. It makes perfect sense to me. Is that what you're saying? I just want to make sure that I understand. Reframe to the positive. Okay, great, I'm glad that I understand. I think next time we should maybe try to hold that boundary for a little bit longer, to build up the frustration, tolerance, before we give in Reframe to the positive. What do you want me to do? Is your partner going to fix themselves overnight? Absolutely not.
Speaker 1:But with a framework like here, you actually can get to the core heart of the disagreement, because the disagreement very rarely is on values. If you had a fundamental disagreement on values with your partner, you guys probably did not talk enough before you got married. To be honest, I don't mean that you have to end your marriage, but then we're going to have to do work in therapy and marriage counseling outside of just parenting. If parenting is just the manifestation of a fundamental disagreement of values, then it's not a parenting problem. It's a relationship problem that we have to solve Most times. It's not that Most times the problem in the relationship or the problem with parenting represents a practicality issue. Parents disagree on the practicality of achieving their long-term goals for their kids and embodying their values for their kids.
Speaker 1:With a framework like here, when you emphasize agreement and you acknowledge their perspective and you hedge your statements and you reframe to something as an alternative, rather than just saying hey look, this is just a practical difference that we have. I really feel like if we learn together, as I kind of outlined for Melissa, if we learn to communicate more effectively, if we seek to have a win-win mindset here, a lot of this practicality stuff is just going to get washed out into the bridge. One more note here we're at the end of the episode. But one more note and I just feel like if you've gotten this far in this episode, it's right for me to say that note is it is okay for your partner to parent differently than you. A lot of the stuff that we talk about is related to having even if your partner is not parenting in what I would define as particularly positive good parenting. It's okay.
Speaker 1:A lot of us think we have to rest in the knowledge that our kids are pretty resilient and that the primary thing that our kids need is one secure, attached relationship with a caregiver. Then, secondarily, they will find secure, attached relationships with caregivers outside the home as well. If you have a partner who just is never going to be on the same page with you on this, you're not necessarily screwing up your kid. If your partner is hitting your kid, if they're being violent. I think that warrants more pause and conversation and definitely seeking counseling and therapy. You want to stop that. You want to end that.
Speaker 1:If it's something as simple as my partner is just kind of shaming me with their language, or my partner is just a yeller, or my partner is really so unaccommodating, they haven't done their self work and they kind of take their trauma out on our kids, sometimes in negative ways related to how they frame things. My partner isn't quite as body positive as I want them to be. My partner doesn't really subscribe to gentle parenting this, that and the other. A lot of that stuff is okay. I think ideally, both partners would be on the same page. I think it's going to be a strain on your relationship if you don't get on the same page to some extent. That's why I do episodes like this. But your kid is going to be okay. Your kid is going to be okay and just knowing that you are out there doing the good work is enough. It's enough, good enough.
Speaker 1:Parenting is the best type of parenting. None of us are perfect parents. No child is going to have a perfect childhood. You and your partner are going to violate your fundamental tenets and values at times. But really, if you cannot get on the same page, it does not mean that your kid is going to be screwed up for the rest of their life. It just doesn't. And so take rest in that, do all the things that I'm saying absolutely.
Speaker 1:And if none of it works in the end, just rest in the knowledge that being a secure, attentive, attached caregiver who cares for your child's basic needs, who is a steady rock of resiliency, who is a person who they can go to when they are in those toxic stress moments to make them non-toxic, that's what your child needs from you. And if your partner cannot live up to that standard because of their past or whatever else, or they just haven't done their work, that is okay. It's okay for them to be on a different journey and your child is not going to be messed up by having parents who approach parenting differently. All of us, every single person listening to this right now had two parents who or I don't know if you had two parents, but if you had two parents or two caregivers of some kind, they approach parenting differently in some ways, and that's okay. If you only had one caregiver, that's also okay, and that's further evidence of the fact that single parents raise resilient, attached, healthy kids all the time. And so if you don't think that you know you can possibly do this on your own, you can, and so just rest in that, and that's where I'm going to end the episode, just knowing that you are enough. Your best is enough. You will never totally change your partner's perspective on everything that's work that they have to do, but you are enough. Rest in that, friends, we are at the episode. End the end of the episode, I should say, on how to help your partner give on the same page with you, how to navigate partner conflict as it relates to parenting.
Speaker 1:This has been a little bit of a longer episode. I really appreciate you guys sticking with me through the end and, as I said, sort of in the middle or maybe at the beginning I don't remember exactly when. If you are interested in the full workshop 90 minute workshop on this topic I do have it inside of my membership. All you have to do is join the membership and you will get access to that workshop instantly because it is a replay. It's something that we have done in the past. Otherwise, I really hope that this episode has been helpful to you If it has, do all of the things I said at the mid-roll. Share it with a friend, share it on social media, read a review, do all that stuff. And yeah, this episode has been long enough, so I'm going to stop talking and let you get back to your day. I know you guys are busy parents. Take care.
